I Think I Have Been Wrong

E

Ed Brunner

New member
I think Ihave been wrong about the proper approach to a third party candidate an in Libertarian or Reform Party.
I now think that I would vote for an acceptable candidate regardless of his or realistic chances of winning. I have made this change because of the frustration of trying to influence the GOP on a lot of issues.
I dont know what the GOP responds to,and I doubt if a mass exodus would penetrate their sphere of consciousness,but if ALL of the screwees would unite think of what we could achieve.

Screwees,unite!

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Does this mean we Loonitarians have succeeded in our brainwashing plan?
smile.gif


Seriously, Ed, thanks for reconsidering.

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"America is at that awkward stage.
It's too late to work within the system,
but too early to start shooting the bastards."
--Claire Wolfe
 
I'm sure other folks will disagree, but I'm with ya, Ed.
("Screwees, unite! -- indeed!
biggrin.gif
)
I'm tired of voting for evil because it's supposedly "lesser".
 
Ed,
I am about to fall on that side of the fence as well. Still some things to sort out before I throw on the pack and begin to march.


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to locate, close with and …
 
Sorry, folks. Principle is important, but I won't give up my vote just because a candidate is not ideologically perfect (few are). I will continue to vote for "the lesser" if that is the only choice I have. Anything else is throwing my vote to "the worse".

Also, given two good candidates with one the incumbent, either in the primary or the general election, I vote for the incumbent. Given two bad candidates, I vote against the incumbent. Power in the legislatures depends on seniority, so keep a good person in as long as possible, and replace bad ones as soon as possible.

Jim
 
Jim , If our forefathers thought that , we'd be driving on the left side of the road !!!

All of us must realize the fallacy that the politicos put forth to us; that a vote for the third party is a wasted vote, is for the purpose of keeping the present system in place... think of the ratios of the voting in recent history... ( forget the electoral vote)

First of all fewer and fewer votes are cast, which makes everyone of our votes that much more valuable.

Second this congress has been worthless at stopping the onslaught on our Rights, so little is to be lost over teaching them a valuable lesson.

Third, think of the fact that there are 80 million gun owners... less than half of the population is of voting age and less than half of them are registered to vote, and less than half of them actually vote .... lets see 270 mil/2/2/2=33.7 mil actually vote. (1996 national votes for president were 44,881,176 ) vs 80 mil gun owners???? now how is that a difficult thing to do to change the face of government???? Even if half of the gun owners voted together we could have whatever we wanted , Right???

An even more interesting number is the 25 million Veterans who have pledged to defend the Constitution against all enemies both foriegn and domestic !!!

Fourth, in other countries like France and Italy, a third party controlling 14 or 15% of the congress controls the nation , because neither side can win without them. We could easily be that party ! The Constitutionalist Party !
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What part of "INFRINGED" don't they understand?


[This message has been edited by Menos (edited June 09, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Menos (edited June 09, 1999).]
 
(Rant Mode On)
Look at what all those votes for Perot got us. A lot of us here on the forums are in agreement that there are some better candidates out there (as far as firearms issues go). But what about the folks that don't come to these forums--or any forums for that matter--and discuss political issues? What about the folks that don't even read the newspapers? What about the people who don't even know the name of our Vice President? How many gun owners out there do you actually think keep up with political agendas? Hell, we can't even get 'em all to join the NRA or GOA! How do you think we're going to get them to vote for the right candidate? The media isn't going to give the third parties much attention. If the third party does get media attention, they usually come out looking like a joke. This time around, it's Gore vs. Bush, and that's the bottom line in my opinion. Buchanan? Perot? Forbes? Oh, those are the guys that people vote for simply because they don't like either of the major cadidates.

Face it. Unless we can get every gun owner in the United States to vote for the right people, which would take considerable time and convincing, we might as well go with who is our best option for the immediate future.

I'm tired of people who don't vote because they don't like the candidates. I'm tired of people who vote for the underdogs simply to make a statement (although I may agree with the statement). Until there is a nation-wide concensus on what's going on, every vote that goes to a third party might as well be counted as a vote for the Democrats. And at this point in our gun-owning lives, I don't think we can afford that.

Yeah, we all have the ideal candidates in mind, but how in tarnation are we going to get them in office?!?!

As much as I would like to vote for the "ideal" candidate, it just ain't gonna happen.

(Rant Mode Off--Placing Cold Wet Towel Behind Neck)

[This message has been edited by Bulldog (edited June 09, 1999).]
 
Honestly? I really don't know what direction to take. Something drastic has to be done. We have had 12 years of sunshine up the ass. This BS about surplus and such. The truth is we are going in dept at a rate of 10K dollars a second. I'm sick of feel-good-itis. We are headed for deep do-do, no, strike that, we are headed for deep $hit. The whole thing has been a JDRFU(read JANFU and substitute Dem and Rep for Army and Navy). I'm soooooo sick of today I'm Republican tomorrow I'm Democrat or today I'm Democarat tomorrow I'm Republican politicos. Ronald started out as a Democrat remember? Even today we have Colin (should I be Dem or Rep) Powell and Sarah ( I used to be a Rep, but I'm feeling all better now that I'm a Dem, come on Jimmy smile nice for the camera and don't drool) Brady. Sometimes I think we would all be better off if they just dragged Castro up here, stuck him in charge and let the whole mess come to a boil.


Rant mode off and pulse returning to normal. Sorry 'bout that, but I think I echo the frustrations of a lot of people.

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(!)
 
How many times has every Libertarian or Reform (or Green or Socialist, for that matter) advocate had to counter the circular argument that people use to explain why they don't vote their conscience: "I agree with the principle, but I won't vote for them unless they have a chance of winning"?

If you are willing to compromise your principles for the infinitessimal chance that you will cast the tie-breaking vote, do you really value your principles all that highly?
frown.gif
 
I'm at a loss as to why anyone would vote any party line on the basis of "The XXXXXX party looks after my interests". The demos have systematically screwed their own usual constituants (the enviros, labor, wimmin, urban dwellers, etc). The gop has screwed everybody else that used to depend on them to watch their 6s (civil liberties, christians, gun owners, etc).

IMHO, the only issue worth discussing anymore is the rise of the corporate state. If the multinationals have their way, nations will cease to exist as autonomous legal entities. The only laws will be enacted and enforced by trade organizations, eg NAFTA.

What do y'all think?

db
 
Bulldog, look at what all those votes for republicans have got us. i can't tell that it got us anything. we're still losing more rights everytime you turn around, they didn't have enough backbone to get rid of a liar, and a traitor. so just look at what we have to show for voting for the republican party, democrats w/ a different name........
i won't even go into what a great job the nra is doing............

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fiat justitia
 
For me, Job One in the 2000 election is to defeat Al Gore. Whoever is most likely to defeat him gets my vote. If a Libertarian can defeat Gore, I'll vote Libertarian. If a Republican can defeat Gore, I'll vote Republican (except for Elizabeth Dole, who has proven herself as despicable a demagogue as the worst of the Democrats).

I realize that this is a negative approach and therefore open to criticism. But the idea of "President Gore" is just too much for me. Gore imitates Clinton's anti-gun zealotry more and more all the time. Also, as President, Gore would probably keep in office those Washington appointees whose idea of formulating public policy is to memorize HCI press releases.

In sum: No More Gore!

My $0.02.
 
One of my more quotable quotes before the 1992 election: "For the first time in years,we have a clear choice. We can vote for tax anx spend and lie about it or tax and spend and laugh about it"

Guess who won?

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Longhair, I agree with you totally......My point is, not everyone is standing together on the issues. If there was just some way to convice everyone to vote Libertarian, we'd be set. But what are the chances of that happening in the near future?

Like I said, in my opinion, we are in the minority when it comes to being informed on political issues. There is still a lot of folks out there who still take their rights for granted and could give a rat's @$$ about what the future holds for us.

I concede that every time someone like me says "Well, I'm not voting for them simply because they don't have a chance," that only weakens the Libertarian's chance of winning.
I'd be willing to bet that if everyone did vote with their hearts, we'd be in a much better situation right now. But my main question was, how are we gonna get it to happen? Even if we get everyone in the NRA, GOA, TSRA, and any other RKBA organization to vote Libertarian, do you really think we would win? It's gonna take a lot more than just convincing the pro-gun folks.

Sorry guys, but I'm notorious for being negative on a lot of subjects, but in this case, I think I'm simply being realistic.

I agree in the saying that goes "If you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem," but in this case, I don't think we're in a position to dilly-dally around with a party that historically has a lower chance of winning an election (that is, unless a miracle can be worked).
 
We have to figure how to unite the 80,000,000 gun owners. If we can do that we will win.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
We could just vote for the one we believe will do the most damage in the shortest amount of time and get this whole incremental thing over with!

wink.gif


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John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."

www.countdown9199.com
 
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