I take a gun to Yellowstone--what happens to me?

MattC58

New member
Ok,

Let's say hypothetically that I take a .44 magnum into Yellowstone for 10 days of backcountry camping. I've concealed the gun in a fanny pack or something similar.

I know that it's against the rules, but I want to know what happens in the following scenarios:

1) A ranger somehow finds out I've got the gun before I enter the backcountry.

2) A ranger somehow finds out I've got the gun while in the backcounty.

3) I shoot in self-defense against a grizzly. The grizzly is not dead.

4) I shoot in self-defense against a grizzly, killing it.

Thanks for any information. I'm quite confident some folks here have taken the guns into the park.
 
1) Ranger Smith takes the gun and inserts it into your rectum.

2) See above.

3) Yogi takes the gun and inserts it into your rectum.

4) See #1, plus all the PETA freaks line up to take a turn with the gun as well.
 
National Parks are "Unarmed Victim Zones." You life is worth less than the grizzly in the eyes of the Ranger.

National forests are not so designated as I recall.

Rick
 
A few answers:

1) Keep it in your backpack

2) Keep it under a shirt

3) Grizzly not dead = YOU ARE (no prob, right?)

4) Walk away quickly, and exit the area ASAP. You know NOTHING.

If you're busted, it's gonna be real ugly for you.
 
What does "get ugly for you" mean? Fine, confiscation of my gun, misdemeanor charge, felony charge, jail, ass-kicking, etc?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MattC58:
What does "get ugly for you" mean? Fine, confiscation of my gun, misdemeanor charge, felony charge, jail, ass-kicking, etc?[/quote]
You have to impregnate Janet Reno :eek:



------------------
Rob
From the Committee to Use Proffesional Politicians as Lab Animals
 
First of all, ANY gun law-break will result in confiscation these days. ANY.

Second, felony charges and arrest.

Imprisonment is usually MANDATORY, even for a first offense. And heavy fines are involved.

But I carry any time I'm in the woods. I don't feel like being bear sh*t. But there is almost more concern these days for the TWO-legged predators, you know?
 
Crobrun:

Can't they be prosecuted for war crimes imposing torture as drastic as that ?


Although she is kind of sexy........




[This message has been edited by scud (edited April 27, 2000).]
 
This has been discussed at length over at GlockTalk in the past. I'll post some recollections, and try to find a URL link to Park Service info etc.

* Firearms are prohibited for carry in Nat'l Parks, period, except for LEO rangers and others on official business. OK in Nat'l Forests.

* One recommendation was, if you DO decide to carry and a ranger were to say to you "do you have any firearms?" is to reply "Well, that would be illegal, wouldn't it. sir?" No risk there, imo, because as we know ignorance of the law is no excuse anyway, so the fact that you're saying you know it is illegal isn't incriminating or an admission of guilt. It also doesn't give him probable cause, which he still needs to search you. Keep the gun well-hidden.

* Several at GT recounted encounters with Ricky Rangers who were very hostile...taking their LEO role a BIT too seriously. Be cool, don't provoke them or be hostile, and you'll probably avoid a problem. If you're in the backcountry, you may never see a ranger.

* If you're in or traveling thru a Nat'l Park w/ a firearm in the vehicle, it's supposed to be unloaded, and locked in the trunk (and maybe even disassembled).

* In bear country, or in the backcountry where "human animals" are the risk, I'd pack probably (with my CCW for ID... you never know if it MIGHT get you off the hook).

* I've wondered about LEO's and LEO reserves being able to carry there... might make that reserve badge even more valuable.

UPDATE:

From http://www.nps.gov

and

http://www.nps.gov/pub_aff/e-mail/weapons.htm



Weapon Regulations

Possession or use of firearms or other weapons in all National Park System (NPS) areas is
prohibited (except as otherwise provided in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 36 parts
7 (special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations). With rare exception (such as times when
controlled hunting is allowed) weapons are to be dismantled completely and cased while
visiting in NPS areas in the United States. In order to transport weapons through NPS areas
they must be dismantled and adequately cased or packed in such a way as to prevent their
use. Loaded weapons are subject to confiscation by park authorities.

Please contact the Chief Ranger or Superintendent of the park(s) you will be visiting for
additional information concerning weapons, traps and nets.

Following is a reprint from the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 36 - Parks, Forests, and
Public Property. It is Section 2.4 Weapons, Traps and Nets.

Code of Federal Regulations
Title 36, Volume 1, Parts 1 to 199
[Revised as of July 1, 1998]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 36CFR2.4] [Page 19-20]
TITLE 36--PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY

CHAPTER I--NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
PART 2--RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION

Sec. 2.4 Weapons, traps and nets.
(a)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7 (special regulations) and 13
(Alaska regulations), the following are prohibited: (i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net (ii)
Carrying a weapon, trap or net (iii) Using a weapon, trap or net (2) Weapons, traps or nets
may be carried, possessed or used: (i) At designated times and locations in park areas where:
(A) The taking of wildlife is authorized by law in accordance with Sec. 2.2 of this chapter;
(B) The taking of fish is authorized by law in accordance with Sec. 2.3 of this part. (ii) When
used for target practice at designated times and at facilities or locations designed and
constructed specifically for this purpose and designated pursuant to special regulations. (iii)
Within a residential dwelling. For purposes of this subparagraph only, the term ``residential
dwelling'' means a fixed housing structure which is either the principal residence of its
occupants, or is occupied on a regular and recurring basis by its occupants as an alternate
residence or vacation home. (3) Traps, nets and unloaded weapons may be possessed within a
temporary lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are rendered
temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased or stored in a manner that will prevent their
ready use. (b) Carrying or possessing a loaded weapon in a motor vehicle, vessel or other
mode of transportation is prohibited, except that carrying or possessing a loaded weapon in a
vessel is allowed when such vessel is not being propelled by machinery and is used as a
shooting platform in accordance with Federal and State law. (c) The use of a weapon, trap or
net in a manner that endangers persons or property is prohibited. (d) The superintendent may
issue a permit to carry or possess a weapon, trap or net under the following circumstances:
(1) When necessary to support research activities conducted in accordance with Sec. 2.5. (2)
To carry firearms for persons in charge of pack trains or saddle horses for emergency use.
(3) For employees, agents or cooperating officials in the performance of their official duties.
(4) To provide access to otherwise inaccessible lands or waters contiguous to a park area
when other means of access are otherwise impracticable or impossible. Violation of the
terms and conditions of a permit issued pursuant to this paragraph is prohibited and may
result in the suspension or revocation of the permit. (e) Authorized Federal, State and local
law enforcement officers may carry firearms in the performance of their official duties. (f)
The carrying or possessing of a weapon, trap or net in violation of applicable Federal and
State laws is prohibited. (g) The regulations contained in this section apply, regardless of
land ownership, on all lands and waters within a park area that are under the legislative
jurisdiction of the United States. [48 FR 30282, June 30, 1983, as amended at 49 FR 18450,
Apr. 30, 1984; 52 FR 35240, Sept. 18, 1987]


Back | Home | Search | Visit Your Parks

Last Updated: 12/3/99
http://www.nps.gov/pub_aff/e-mail/parkemail.htm



[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited April 27, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited April 27, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Covert Mission:


...
weapons are to be dismantled completely and cased while
visiting in NPS areas in the United States.
...

[/quote]


So just make sure you carry a lockable plastic case, big enough to put your pistol in, small enough to carry easily.

Make it double as your "First Aid Kit" !!! :)

But, more importantly... if you get caught, let us know so that we can help you fund a court fight all the way to the Supreme Court for breech of 2nd Amendment Rights by the Nat. Park Service.

~USP
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But, more importantly... if you get caught, let us know so that we can help you fund a court fight all the way to the Supreme Court for breech of 2nd Amendment Rights by the Nat. Park Service.[/quote]

Now we're talking! Why am I even worried?

Seriously though, isn't it strange that we're permitted the use of deadly force against a gang banger (a human being) when our life is threatened, but not against an animal? I'm for nature and animals as much as the next guy, I wouldn't be going to Yellowstone for 10 days in the woods if I wasn't, but my life and my buddies' lives are a bit more important.
 
I'm not sure how long this gun prohibition in the Nat. Parks has been in effect. I know that it came to the fore a few years ago, with a couple shooting incidents in Yosemite. For the unaware, some parks like Yosemite are like Disneyland in high season, and because idiots and criminals all have cars and can go on vacation, they end up in the parks. There was a shootout between some a-holes, I think a responding Ranger was wounded... details are foggy. So now, there are more LEO rangers to allegedly keep the bad people in check. Right. With the ratio of Rangers to A-holes ridiculous in high season in some parks, the response time is probably hours, not minutes. Worse in the back country. So, you're on your own. Get out the bear spray, for two-legged critters too.

BTW, I was on a flight to MT, sitting next to a wildlife guy who was working on the wolf reintroduction in Yellowstone. He has a lot of bear experience, and told me "I will not camp in Yellowstone. Anywhere there's bears, I want a gun. No gun, no camp." Food for thought. I have no desire to kill a Grizz, but less to be "kilt by a bar". Be safe, and adhere to ALL the proper bear country precaution...bells, spray, noise, food storge, etc.

[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited April 27, 2000).]
 
If confronted by a ranger, raise arms. If he continues to charge, go face down and hands behind your head covering the back of your neck. It may be that he is just being territorial and will take a few swipes at you and leave you alone.

Whatever you do, make sure that you don't get caught OUTSIDE of yellowstone. I believe that a million or so acres belongs to the UN now and you might end up having to go before the almighty Mr. Gorbechev. :eek: The park itself I believe is a national biosphere area, making it a federal crime as well as a state issue. I'm no lawyer, just making some speculation on a matter of interest. The info above looks like it will help.

Have fun at Yellowstone. I doubt if anyone will know that you are packing unless you have to shoot an endangered species like a grizzly. In that case, you might have to decide whether you want to die a relatively quick and painful death at the hands of a bear OR a relatively long and painful death at the hands of beaurocrats.

------------------
"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
---------------------------
"Reasonable gun law?............There's No such critter!" --EQ
 
Bring the Gun, just whatever you do, don't make any noise... so knock it off with the thinking out loud.

http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/4/27/141033


National Parks Ban Snowmobiles
Associated Press
Thursday April 27, 2000
WASHINGTON - The National Park Service today issued a broad ban on recreational use of snowmobiles at nearly all national parks, recreational areas and monuments. The off-road vehicles have had ``significant adverse environmental effect'' on the park system, the agency said.
The only exceptions to the ban were parks in Alaska and the Voyageurs National Park in Minnesota, where Congress specifically allowed use of snowmobiles, and in cases where the vehicles are considered necessary for access to adjacent private lands or inholdings, the agency said. The ban applies to 10 national parks from Acadia in Maine to Sequoia and Kings Canyon in California. Snowmobiling also no longer will be allowed in 15 national seashores, monuments, parkways, historic sites, recreational areas and scenic trails.

Decisions on applying the ban to Yellowstone National Park in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming and to Grand Teton National Park in Wyoming were delayed until November because of continuing snowmobile studies at the two parks.

``The time has come for the National Park Service to pull in its welcome mat for recreational snowmobiling,'' Assistant Interior Secretary Donald J. Barry said. He called snowmobiles ``noisy, antiquated machines that are no longer welcome in our national parks.''

``The snowmobile industry has had many years to clean up their act, and they haven't,'' said Barry.

More than 180,000 snowmobiles are used during winter in the national park system. Critics have complained that they account for significant air pollution, noise and damage to wildlife and the park environment.

The action came in response to a petition filed more than a year ago by the Bluewater Network and more than 60 other environmental and conservation groups. They claimed the National Park Service has not enforced its own regulations, dating back to the 1970s, that required close monitoring of snowmobiles and other off-road vehicles in parks and a ban if they were found to harm the environment.

``The Park Service is finally waking up to the lasting harm motorized thrill craft such as snowmobiles cause to parks,'' said Sean Smith of Bluewater Network in San Francisco. He is a former park ranger at Yellowstone.

``Snowmobile use is hurting parks and discouraging visitors. People want to enjoy the parks free from noise and pollution,'' said Kevin Collins, a spokesman for the National Parks and Conservation Association, a private park advocacy group.

The Park Service acknowledged that for years it has failed to monitor snowmobile use and, in violation of its own regulations, failed to adequately monitor the impact of the popular recreational vehicles on the park environment. For years, ``inattention to our own regulatory standards on snowmobiles generated the problem we have before us today,'' said Denis Galvin, the Park Service's deputy director.
 
Visited Yellowstone last August. We did not go into the back country so I didn't risk carrying a gun. Still I felt a bit like prey. They repeat over and over how safe you are from bears (they don't mention 2 legged creatures). Anyway, they tell you how few bear attacks there are, yada, yada, yada.... yet nearly every tree has bear scratches on its trunk and grizzly fur sticking to the pine tar. Especially around the canyon area. If I were hitting the back country, I don't know what I'd do. However, when it comes to grizzlies a 44 mag ain't much better than a BBgun but lots better than the "perfume" they expect you to spray them with.

And the bear says, "Oooooooo, don't spray me with that! It'll make me smell bad, you big, bad 'ol human!" :rolleyes:

------------------
Refuse to be a "helpless" victim.
Knowing Your Rights WAGC in Indiana
 
And now, an Update from Montana Fish and Game:

In light of the rising frequency of human/grizzly bear conflicts, the Montana Department of Fish and Game is advising hikers, hunters, and fishermen to take extra precautions and keep alert of bears while in the field.

"We advise outdoorsmen to wear noisy little bells on their clothing so as not to startle bears that aren't expecting them. We also advise outdoorsmen to carry pepper spray with them in case of an encounter with a bear.

It is also a good idea to watch out for fresh signs of bear activity. Outdoorsmen should recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear manure:

Black bear manure is smaller and contains lots of berries and squirrel fur.

Grizzly bear manure has little bells in it and smells like pepper."


:D :D :D
LawDog


[This message has been edited by LawDog (edited April 28, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crobrun:

You have to impregnate Janet Reno
[/quote] :eek:
Never thought I'd say this: "Go ahead take my guns."
 
"...impregnate Janet Reno"..?!?! Cruel and unusual punishment!!! Yes, yet another sad example of how twisted America has become. You think that old Teddy Roosevelt could ever even imagine that his work in setting up parks would end up like this? Personally, I carry everywhere and will NOT allow myself to be taken prisoner. 'Nuff said.
 
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