I could not deny the facts. After I watched this video with My Wife I was convinced that the FBI and the ATF are the Governments Police State in action. This video showed the hidious and errogance of our federal Gestopos not to mention the cover up and lies of our unjustice dept. This video made me want to round up all the agents involved in this breech of our Constitution and hang them or put them in front of a fireing squad. What a bunch of sick and demented power hungry gung ho butchers of children and women, and the sick thing is that they laughed under there breaths the whole time they were excuting there diabolical plan. Kind of the same mental sickness as those two who shot up Columbine. How ironic, and sick. Anyone else see it??? If not you should!! God help us.
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I rented "Waco-rules of engagement".. Quite stunning.
- Thread starter john232
- Start date
Loved the parts where:
Janet Reno equated a tank with a rental car.
Schumer describes "flash bangs" as "concussion grenades"-The meaning shifted depending on the direction the device was thrown.
Reports of agents "mooning" the women and kids inside.
Sick video. So sad and tragic it's a true story.
Janet Reno equated a tank with a rental car.
Schumer describes "flash bangs" as "concussion grenades"-The meaning shifted depending on the direction the device was thrown.
Reports of agents "mooning" the women and kids inside.
Sick video. So sad and tragic it's a true story.
I've tried to get a few anti-gunner's to watch this video. Even was going to rent it for them. They would not. I think the problem with these people is that they can't face up to the fact that our government is not always doing the right thing. It would shake up their comfortable world too much and they just could not handle the overload.
------------------
Richard
The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
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Richard
The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
Remember that:
1) Janet Reno says that she takes personal resposibility for everything that happened at Waco
2) The media tells us that Janet Reno is a saint and can do nothing wrong
3) Ther fore nothing bad did happen at Waco
4) Any statements to the contrary can only come from members of the Great Right Wing Conspiracy
5) If ypu don't believe me, ask Hillary.
1) Janet Reno says that she takes personal resposibility for everything that happened at Waco
2) The media tells us that Janet Reno is a saint and can do nothing wrong
3) Ther fore nothing bad did happen at Waco
4) Any statements to the contrary can only come from members of the Great Right Wing Conspiracy
5) If ypu don't believe me, ask Hillary.
Not to play devil's advocate here but....
Just like polls can be used to show a certain posistion so can video. Each side can edit and narrate the same footage to "prove" their posistion/interpretation of the happenings. Keep an open mind when viewing such... on either side of the debate.
------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
Just like polls can be used to show a certain posistion so can video. Each side can edit and narrate the same footage to "prove" their posistion/interpretation of the happenings. Keep an open mind when viewing such... on either side of the debate.
------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
I have yet to see the documentary, but it's on my list of must-see films. I plan on renting it and watching it this week.
Regardless of which version of events you believe, the Government's or the surviving Branch Davidians' version, I doubt that many thinking people can deny that things were handled with (extreme) incompetence on the part of the Government. They had a number of chances to pick up and question Koresh away from the compound, but they didn't. If they had, all of the bloodshed could have been avoided. But maybe the Government didn't want to avoid bloodshed.
Maybe the mucky-mucks needed a big, publicity-magnet type of event to help solidify their power and show others that the Government isn't something to be trifled with. And those under them, the people actually carrying out the orders, instead of questioning them as an inefficient way of dealing with the situation, were only too obliging to use force as a first resort. Perhaps the field commanders saw the Waco raid as a stepping stone to a higher position, who knows? I doubt we will ever know the full story.
But, then again, there is a new film out that delves deeper into the mystery surrounding Waco, and it might prove damaging enough to get some attention focused on the event. But, given most Americans lack of interest in anything that really affects their lives, maybe not. Anyway, here is the link to find out more info. about the film.
http://www.waco-anewrevelation.com/
DAL
------------------
Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
Regardless of which version of events you believe, the Government's or the surviving Branch Davidians' version, I doubt that many thinking people can deny that things were handled with (extreme) incompetence on the part of the Government. They had a number of chances to pick up and question Koresh away from the compound, but they didn't. If they had, all of the bloodshed could have been avoided. But maybe the Government didn't want to avoid bloodshed.
Maybe the mucky-mucks needed a big, publicity-magnet type of event to help solidify their power and show others that the Government isn't something to be trifled with. And those under them, the people actually carrying out the orders, instead of questioning them as an inefficient way of dealing with the situation, were only too obliging to use force as a first resort. Perhaps the field commanders saw the Waco raid as a stepping stone to a higher position, who knows? I doubt we will ever know the full story.
But, then again, there is a new film out that delves deeper into the mystery surrounding Waco, and it might prove damaging enough to get some attention focused on the event. But, given most Americans lack of interest in anything that really affects their lives, maybe not. Anyway, here is the link to find out more info. about the film.
http://www.waco-anewrevelation.com/
DAL
------------------
Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
I saw the video, and even before then, I was quite upset about Waco. If there were a meth-amphetamine lab there, why was it an ATF operation? If there was child-abuse (which was investigated by the local Sheriff, and no charges filed) then why was it an ATF operation? If it was a firearms violation, then why didn't the ATF take up David Koresh on his invitation to come out and take a look? They refused the invitation for a peaceful inspection, because I believe they needed good press to get more money from Congress which was about to have hearings on the budget requests for both ATF and FBI. Unfortunately, there will always be people who like in NAZI Germany, believe everything the Government wants them to believe. Why? Because it is too scary to admit that the Government has committed acts of homicide on its own citizens, in plain view of the press. I highly recomend this video, and you may rent it at most Blockbuster Video stores.
I viewed this documentary film shortly after it was released, about a year ago, and was appalled by what I saw. Whatever “crime” these people committed, they certainly did not deserve the treatment that they received. Due process and civil rights were violated before, during, and after the incident. It is alarming and deeply disturbing to see tanks utilized on the civilian populace for any reason.
& isn't Chuckie so smug? Grrr ..
Waco - New Revelation is better quality & delves into some more aspects of extra thermal imagery of quite afew MORE automatic weapons being fired into the "compound" when the "good rent-a-cars," a la Reno description were (NOT) assaulting.
It appears very clear that 2X people are dumping full-auto fire into the bldg directly in back of the "tank." Too, a helicopter firing out a door into the "compound."
Government "explains" away thermal imagery as reflections off of glass.
Waco - New Revelation is better quality & delves into some more aspects of extra thermal imagery of quite afew MORE automatic weapons being fired into the "compound" when the "good rent-a-cars," a la Reno description were (NOT) assaulting.
It appears very clear that 2X people are dumping full-auto fire into the bldg directly in back of the "tank." Too, a helicopter firing out a door into the "compound."
Government "explains" away thermal imagery as reflections off of glass.
This is where I post the URL for the Texas Ranger report on what happened at Waco.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/public_information/branch_davidian/index.htm
Enjoy!
LawDog
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/public_information/branch_davidian/index.htm
Enjoy!
LawDog
RAE,
I thought that Schumer also described the 'Flash bangs' as 'Flash Packs', as if they were some sort harmless photographic lighting accessory being used in the raid.
Another good source on Waco, though in book form is 'No More Wacos: What's Wrong with Federal Law Enforcement and How to Fix It' by Paul Blackman and David Kopel (Prometheus Books, New York). Thorough material, though it does not mention the thermal films from the overhead aircraft. Plenty of screw ups mentioned, and good ideas as to what to do about it.
I thought that Schumer also described the 'Flash bangs' as 'Flash Packs', as if they were some sort harmless photographic lighting accessory being used in the raid.
Another good source on Waco, though in book form is 'No More Wacos: What's Wrong with Federal Law Enforcement and How to Fix It' by Paul Blackman and David Kopel (Prometheus Books, New York). Thorough material, though it does not mention the thermal films from the overhead aircraft. Plenty of screw ups mentioned, and good ideas as to what to do about it.
I just watched "Waco: Rules of Engagement" last night. What a friggin' disaster! Sure, Koresh was a bit weird, but since when is that a crime? The ATF/FBI turned what should have been a simple thing into a catastrophe, and then lied about it to cover their sorry a***s. The lying is what really sticks in my craw about this whole sorry episode.
And some in the Government want us to give up our guns and rely on its humanity and magnanimity? No, thank you. I'll trust in myself and my ability to strike back at those who try to oppress me.
For what it's worth, I believe Koresh should have surrendered (if for no other reason than the danger the children were in), and maybe he would have if he had known the eventual outcome. But the FBI action was way out of proportion to whatever crimes he MAY have been guilty of. There definitely seems to have been a high degree of revenge in the feds' actions, which led to some pretty unprofessional behavior and decision making.
DAL
P.S. Isn't it convenient that the steel front door that could have proved (or disproved) the Government's contention that the Davidians fired first is missing? Now how the HELL does someone lose a steel door?
------------------
Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
And some in the Government want us to give up our guns and rely on its humanity and magnanimity? No, thank you. I'll trust in myself and my ability to strike back at those who try to oppress me.
For what it's worth, I believe Koresh should have surrendered (if for no other reason than the danger the children were in), and maybe he would have if he had known the eventual outcome. But the FBI action was way out of proportion to whatever crimes he MAY have been guilty of. There definitely seems to have been a high degree of revenge in the feds' actions, which led to some pretty unprofessional behavior and decision making.
DAL
P.S. Isn't it convenient that the steel front door that could have proved (or disproved) the Government's contention that the Davidians fired first is missing? Now how the HELL does someone lose a steel door?
------------------
Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
My favorite snippet from W:TROE is when Koresh accuses negotiator of lieing about the helicoptors strafing the "compound".
Negotiator: "There were not guns mounted to those helicoptors..."
Koresh: "YOU ARE A LIAR!!!"
Negotiator: "Well, there were not guns *mounted* to the helicoptors..."
later,
Rick
I just ordered a copy of the Waco: NR.
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"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788
Negotiator: "There were not guns mounted to those helicoptors..."
Koresh: "YOU ARE A LIAR!!!"
Negotiator: "Well, there were not guns *mounted* to the helicoptors..."
later,
Rick
I just ordered a copy of the Waco: NR.
------------------
"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788