I personally researched the truth of Australia's rising crime rates

Tortuga

New member
Fellow TFL'ers,

In light of some recent press reports, I've done some research that you'll probably find valuable.

The anti-gun community has questioned the NRA's statements that Australia's crime rates have risen due to their recent gun bans. The NRA reported some dramatic findings, including that the armed robbery rate rose 44% within 12 months of the ban. Anti-gunners are now saying that the NRA is wrong because Australia's murder rate is down. Who is right? I'll give you the details and sources here.

In simplest terms, the NRA is correct (albeit a few minor discrepancies). To confuse matters, the anti-gunners are also technically correct, but they're clearly distorting the big picture.

Both sides are quoting the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS). Fortunately, ABS's web site posts all of these key statistics. (Their home page can be found at http://www.abs.gov.au/ and the statistics in question can be found at http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/c311215.NSF/Australia+Now +-+A+Statistical+Profile/2C2A842ACC44F31DCA2567220072E990/ ).

The gun ban occurred in 1996. So we're most concerned with what happened to crime rates in the following 12 months. The NRA claimed the following statistics (from 1996 to 1997):

Armed-robberies rose 44%
Assaults rose 8.6%
Homicides rose 3.2%

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) at the above web addresses, the following statistics are shown (from 1996 to 1997):

Armed robberies rose 44.7% (6,256 to 9,054).
Assaults rose 9.1% (114,156 to 124,500).
Murders rose 2.9% (312 to 321).

This would lead us to believe that the NRA slightly underestimated the rise in armed robberies and assaults and slightly overestimated the rise in the murder rate. These small discrepancies might be accounted for in the fact that crime statistics are often changed by small amounts later in the year as more data becomes available. Whatever the reason, the NRA's statistics are well in line with the latest data available.

The anti-gunners insist that murders are down. According to the ABS, they're correct - but only if you look at the data from the next year. There were 321 murders in 1997 and 284 in 1998 - an 11.5% decrease. The NRA is correct that the murder rate increased from 1996 to 1997 and the anti-gunners are correct that it fell from 1997 to 1998.

But in a typical anti-gun half-truth, they've left out the rest of the story. If you look at what's happened in the two year period from 1996 to 1998, Australia's crime rates continue to rise - and in some cases, quite dramatically. Here are some samples of the ABS's crime statistics from 1996 to 1998:

Armed robberies rose 73.4% (6,256 to 10,850).
Assaults rose 16.5% (114,156 to 132,967).
Unlawful entry with intent rose 8.4% (402,079 to 435,670).
Attempted murders rose 14.0% (335 to 382).
Murders plus attempted murders rose 2.9% (647 to 666).

According to the ABS, crime rates are clearly rising. Oddly enough, the murder rate did FALL 9% from 1996 to 1998 (312 to 284). But this may be explained by the "small number effect". This is because these numbers are already quite small so that when there are 28 fewer murders over a period of two years, it seems like a dramatic effect. Crime statistics on armed robberies, assaults, and unlawful entry with intent are much larger numbers and therefore the increases shown in these categories are more likely to be accurate representations of Australia's rising crime rates.

It's sad that the only thing the media is likely to report will be that "according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, murders are down in Australia since the gun ban went into effect, which contradicts the NRA's claims that crime is up". They will not report that their murder rate was already low - even before the ban. They will not report that armed robberies, assaults, attempted murders, unlawful entries with intent, and virtually all other forms of crime are up as much as 73%. And they certainly won't tell the public that the NRA did NOT misrepresent the rise in crime rates in Australia from 1996 to 1997.


[This message has been edited by Tortuga (edited March 23, 2000).]
 
Thanks for the info, Tortuga. Just added the links to my website.

Although the increase in crime was predicted and obviously occurred, at least we now have it from the horse's mouth (or website, rather :D).

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Bulldawg: NRA, GOA, TSRA, Shiner Bock Connoisseur.
Bulldawg's Firearms Page
 
These short term number don't really amount to much. They need to go out a few more years, maybe a generational cycle. Globally, developed nations, crime is down. Except in Australia. The main reason crime is down in developed nations is because of a shortage of young adults. In eight years, I read somewhere, is when the next wave of young adults hit the streets. It will be very interesting to see these statistics then. It is said that this group is suppose to be the most violent ever. Even more violent than the group from the 80'.

Robert
 
South Africa's the model example of where nations are going. Violent crime has stifled South Africa in recent years. Last time I heard it was the rape capital of the world. Haven't heard much news on SA lately. Does anyone know more?
 
Up to 1996, all of those statistics were going DOWN. "Gun Control" reversed that trend. This has to be taken into account as well.
 
I got this from I guy I correspond with and I'm not sure if he wants me to use his name,
so I'll just call him Lars:

has anyone figured in the effect of the tasmania shooting...that shooting along would have spiked the data one year and make the next year look "lower" when in fact it was only lower than an unnaturally large year.

Anyone know the year this happened? This does make a lot of sense if it's in the time frame.

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"Gun Control is Only to Protect Those in Power"
 
walangkatapat,

The only thing I can say about the Tasmania shooting is that again we're dealing with the "small number effect" as I described above.

Our President likes to use this to his benefit. For example, he says that there was a 60% increase in the number of prosecutions of kids bringing guns to school. In fact, he's correct. In 1997 and 1998, there were a total of over 5,000 kids that were caught bringing guns to school. In 1997, 5 were prosecuted and in 1998, 8 were prosecuted. That's a 60% increase! What he doesn't want you to know is that he only prosecuted 13 of the 5,000 criminals.

That's why I shy away from the murder statistics. All the other ones clearly describe what's going on in Australia.
 
There's lies, damned lies and statistics right ?

Murder rates have been consistent in Australia over the last 100 years.
It's true other crime types like armed robbery have gone up but to say it's because of the gun buyback is plain stupid.
I do not know one single person who lost all their guns to the buyback. Most people have a number of guns so some handed one or two in, and a lot handed in none at all, so really noone has been disarmed.
The NRA is creating false perceptions by saying crime rates went up because we were disarmed. Yeh I handed in a mini 14 but I actually own more guns now then before.
A lot of people made good money by handing in old crappy guns.
 
Those stats Tortuga quoted were not from the NRA but directly from the government of Australia.

True, not everyone turned in their guns, but obviously there were still many guns turned in. And obviously crime in general went UP. So obviously the criminals thought all the law abiding citizens listened to their traitorous government and turned in their weapons. Now, HCI and other anti groups are claiming crime has gone DOWN in Australia due to the gun turn in.

So rabbit, who's creating false perceptions?
 
Saying we were disarmed - its utter crap - we were disarmed of certain types of guns but thats a long long way from being completely disarmed.
The rise in armed robberies and crime is more to do with the increased drug problem and bad policing, breakdown of morals etc etc etc.

Just because antis quote statistics it doesn't mean we need to play that game. Sure use them to disprove the antis statistics but really statistics have nothing to do with my rights to own guns.
I own guns because I want to and I won't resort to statistics to justify owning them.
 
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