I ordered a jug of IMR4146 and IMR4451 today, why? everything was going wrong

C

Clark

New member
I have a Rem700 I put a Shilen Match 7mmRM stainless #3 taper on that shoot very well with 140 gr NBT moly 3200 fps. I hunted with that in 2013.

In 2015 I built a Dumoulin Mauser with Shilen Select Match 6.5-06 ratchet rifling with 142 gr NAB LR moly 2900 fps that fouls in about one group.

Then I remember 4 years ago when I broke in that 7mm barrel. I was using CFE223 that anti Copper fouling powder.

I want to leave for hunting in 2 weeks and I am desperate.

This new powder is supposed to be temp stable and anti Copper.
http://www.imrpowder.com/new_prod.html

I will to to the range with CFE223 tomorrow and the jugs should be here this week. If this powder changing does not work, I will have to recycle an old rifle for hunting 2015.
 
I purchased a pound of 4451 last week, and I'm hoping to get good data with 150 Partitions for my 7mm rem mag.
Make sure you post your results here Clark, you got my interest peaked.
 
I've been using the 4166 and 4451 in 308 and 260 for about 2 months. Good clean barrels with Barnes and lead core bullets. Less powder and getting about 150 fps more velocity. Haven't tried it in my 7 mag yet. It's very plentiful in stores here.
 
In your post you made no mention if either rifle will hit POA with a cold bore.
That is what is important when hunting.
I doubt that you will shoot more than 2 shots at any animal therefore it is irrelevant if it fouls after one group.
 
thump rrr,
What I have been doing is build rifles each year, straighten them out at the local 100 yard range, then drive 900 miles, straiten them out at long range in the desert, and then come back each morning at random distances and fire one shot. At the end of the process I have a maximum range at which I have qualified myself to hunt at that year. Some years it is 400 yards, some years more. 2015 is not looking like a good year. I went to the local range this morning for the 6th time in two weeks.
 
Since that post, i have had two more terrible trips to the range.
I improved the triggers.
I shot up all my CFE223 trying to get two 300WM and one 6.5-06 to stop fouling.

I did not go to the range today, as I knew the anti copper fouling IMR4166 and IMR4451 [like anti Copper H4895 and H4350] until late today.

Today I tried something new:
https://www.boretech.com/products/molymagic.shtml
Smells like perfume or fruit syrup, so not a problem with the wife. [Unlike Witch's Brew that has Kroil in it.]

I thought maybe I had Copper hiding under moly in the bore.
 

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Clark, my husband was a huge fan of Hoppes #9. Wouldn't buy anything else but it was taking hours to clean copper fouling from Barnes bullets. We shot 3 rifles about a month ago and stopped to pick up some more bullets to reload when we decided to buy some break free cleaning foam. We got home and removed the bolts. Turned rifles barrel down on towels and shot foam through the breech until it came out the muzzle. Let them set for 20 minutes. He used a fiber brush instead of copper about 4 times back and forth. Three dry patches and the cleanest barrels we have ever seen. His safe queen 338 ultra mag he thought was spotless got the same treatment. It was awful as what it broke loose. Swear by this stuff now. You are going to love how clean those new Enduron powders shoot and clean. I wouldn't know much about a clean barrel at the range or hunting. We fire a fouling shot at the house before going to the range or the woods.
 
Wendy, I am getting Copper out of any gun with KG1, KG12, Witch's Brew, brushing, and then alcohol.

My problem is getting Copper fouled with so few shots.

My theory is that going to the range is like going fishing... go often enough and eventually I improve.
 
Maybe you should clean the barrel and quit using Moly and see if it fouls less. Can't hurt to try it. You have high dollar barrels that shouldn't foul so quickly and the only thing I see that might be considered 'different' is the Moly.
 
I have used Flitz, JB bore paste, and Witch's brew.

I do not know the grit size of those. I have heard that Witch's brew is 1200 micron.
 
Clark maybe try the Final Finish bullets...hell you probably have by now, those are supposed to clean stuff like erosion and tooling marks up to the point that fouling is easily cleaned.
 
I would not think that Shilen Match grade barrels would need tooling marks removed. As for erosion, that might be part of the problem since, if memory serves, Clark likes to push the envelope on hot loads. Also going on memory, my first 220 Swift barrel, prior to its replacement, was eroded at the throat pretty badly and it was fouling quickly. The new Douglas barrel was wonderfully smooth for a long time but today is the barrel that is oldest, well used, and fouls the quickest.
 
I misunderstood your post as I thought you were trying to get copper fouling out. The picture is what my husband shoots for long range. The Moly coated 150 grain combined technology Nosler. I asked him about it and the picture of the can is what he treats with after cleaning. He takes the G2 and runs a couple wet patches through and puts it close to heat source or out in the sun if hot to seep into grooves. He goes through 30-40 of these every few weeks and doesn't have any moly fouling in the barrel of his 7 mag. These are all loaded with IMR 4831. I may still be misunderstanding but it was his suggestion to try and help if possible.
 
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My first test loads with IMR 4451 were very nice with my 6.506. 125 grain Partition, CCI 200 lrp,
Bto 2.770. Cover 5 with a dime at 100, no signs of pressure what so ever....my new deer load..gonna take it out to 300 in two weeks. If my phone would load pics I'd sure do it, but no.
 
Also I might add that so far in its infancy, the copper fouling hasn't really been reduced.
I think it may require more testing!:D
 
IMR4166 works like IMR4895 in the Quickload library

Today I went to the range with a Dumoulin Mauser 6.5-06 with Shilen select match 8" twist ratchet rifling stainless steel barrel Sightron SIII 3.5x10 scope Harris swivel bipod. 12.5 pounds as tested.
I loaded up 20 rounds of 120 gr Nos Bal tip moly with 50.7 gr IMR4166 powder 3.34" that QL estimates at 3236 fps 65 kpsi for IMR4895
0.64" 3 shot group at 50 yards
1 shot in dirt over chronograph 3197 fps
0.87" 5 shot group at 100 yards centered 1.8" high and to the right
0.97" 5 shot group at 100 yards centered 2" high and to the right
Rubbed wet paper towel on the hot barrel, adjusted scope
0.81" 3 shot group at 100 yards 2" high
--------------------
all 20 rounds fired

This is shooting 1" groups instead of 3" groups.
 

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  • 0.87 in 5 shot group 100y 6.5-06 120 gr NBT 50.7 gr 4166 3.34 in 9-23-2015.jpg
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I thought 4166 was closer to 4064? How do those groups compare to groups you had developed on non copper reducing powders ?
 
I was getting 2 or 3 inch groups with 142 gr NAB LR and H4350.
So there were two changed variables, the bullet and the powder.
 
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