I need help supporting a Pro Gun argument!

S

SC4006

New member
Hello all. Recently my sister (100% anti guns) and I got into an argument about gun violence and gun control. She thinks that somehow a nationwide ban of guns will magically end all gun violence, which we all know is just impossible. A good example I told her about was the incident in NY where a guy gunned down two firefighters. Number one NY has some of the strictest laws in the nation already, and number two the suspect was a known felon, which as we know, regardless of state law any felon cannot possess a firearm, but he still got his hands on one magically. I keep telling her that you can't just ban guns and all violence will stop, as there are all ready millions of guns out there, and tons that aren't even accounted for by the US government, but she thinks somehow those will go away too. I've tried telling her over and over how a gun only does what its operator makes it do, but just nothing I tell her works. Do any of you guys have some good supporting points that I could use to continue my argument with her? I am almost ready to just forget about arguing anymore, but her and I just see so differently and it really angers me to see people think in their own little dream world. Maybe some of you guys will have some good points that I didn't think of.

Thanks...
 
Well I can't think of all of them off the top of my head but what started this whole thing was talking about the AK47. She claims that there is no place for this firearm in the world or any "high capacity semi automatic" and all it does is kill. Another point she brings up often is that guns make it a whole lot easier to kill people, instead of using a knife, baseball bat, car, bomb etc. She says guns make it so easy for criminals to kill people quickly. Another point as told by her is that the Newtown, CT killer was just a regular guy like you and me and that it doesn't take a mentally insane person to kill another human being. That part really angered me, as she is basically comparing me, or you, to a mass murderer, thats just about where I ended the argument for now. If I think of more points she brought up then i'll post them.
 
If the simple fact that criminals don't obey the law (hence the name "criminal"), and therefore won't obey any new gun law, doesn't get through to her then it's likely a lost cause. Barring a "life changing event" like a mugging or robbery you will probably not change her mind.

A wise man once said "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." This is in no way comparing your sister to a pig but just a way to make a point. If she will do it, take her to a reputable firing range and let her shoot. Many people are future gun enthusiasts without knowing it.
 
Maybe you're right Mike, maybe I am just wasting my time that I could be spending having fun target shooting.
 
Don't bother trying to win the argument, her mind is made up, and she probably doesn't know any better.

Tell her that she's your sister and you love her, but her concept of guns is wrong. When she starts arguing that she's right, offer to prove to her that guns do not cause anything. Should she agree to let you prove your point, show her first that a gun is an inert piece of metal that does nothing on it's own. This is easily accomplished by leaving an unloaded pistol on a nearby table while having a conversation.

Once she sees that, try and convince her to go to a range with you. Brief her on safety and how to hold what ever guns you may have before you leave for the range as it's easier in your home than at the range. Once she seems comfortable with that, go to the range and show her how to shoot.

Respect her, and her opinion, and you may get the chance to demonstrate yours.

This approach has worked for me before when introducing friends to shooting, it may work for you. As always, YMMV.
 
Here are the main arguments against assault weapons:
  • They are only good for killing people.
  • No one needs 30 rounds.
  • Your chance of stopping a bad guy is little or none.

All of these arguments also apply to the police who carry assault weapons, yet no one wants the police to give up their guns. Because they want the police to have the chance to stop bad guys.

So here is the question. What about people who don't live near a police station? What about people who are caught in a riot zone where police won't enter. What about people who only have seconds after a bad guy breaks down the door before they are raped or murdered. Don't they deserve the chance to stop the bad guys? At those times, you are the police.

Actually, you don't have the same responsibilities as the police. You have more. The police have no obligation to defend you. Ask the women who have been stalked by abusive ex-husbands. The police will not protect them. They need to be able to defend themselves.

Then ask, why is it that every time gun laws are loosened, crime goes down? Why haven't all the CCW holders been having shootouts as the gun-grabbers wailed they would? Why do gun-free zones and gun-free cities have the highest murder rates? Why do countries where guns are banned have higher rates of violent crime?

Then realize that the idea that we can ban guns and have the problems go away is both childish and emotional. People who believe that are often immune to rational arguments.
 
Another point she brings up often is that guns make it a whole lot easier to kill people, instead of using a knife, baseball bat, car, bomb etc.
Click to expand...

I doubt the men who dropped atomic bombs and fire bombs on Japan and Germany that incinerated millions would agree with that statement. Nor would Timothy McVeigh, or the countless suicide bombers that grace our newscasts regularly. Also in disagreement would be the 40,000 Romans put to the sword by Hannibal Barca at the Battle of Cannae, and everyone else who has been killed with something other than a gun.

Such examples are easily found and used for conversation points, but some people are so averse to guns that they would let themselves be murdered rather than pick up a gun to save their own life. If she's in that category, then don't waste your breath or time. Pick your battles.
 
Show her this chart .

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As you can see rifles as a whole are only used 358 times a year to murder . Less then half of those are Assault weapons . Thats right around 1% of firearm related murders . If any body was serious about trying to stop gun crimes/murders they would not start with the least used firearm . This is not and never has been about stopping gun related murders .
 
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SC4006 said:
Well I can't think of all of them off the top of my head but what started this whole thing was talking about the AK47. She claims that there is no place for this firearm in the world or any "high capacity semi automatic" and all it does is kill. Another point she brings up often is that guns make it a whole lot easier to kill people, instead of using a knife, baseball bat, car, bomb etc. She says guns make it so easy for criminals to kill people quickly. Another point as told by her is that the Newtown, CT killer was just a regular guy like you and me and that it doesn't take a mentally insane person to kill another human being. That part really angered me, as she is basically comparing me, or you, to a mass murderer, thats just about where I ended the argument for now. If I think of more points she brought up then i'll post them.
Click to expand...

More people were killed with HAMMERS in 2012 than with guns.
 
False. More people were killed with hammers, clubs and other blunt objects than rifles. More people were killed via gun than hammer.
 
Most notorious mass murder in US history was 911. They used planes.

According to your sisters argument we should ban all large passenger planes and mass murders will go away.

Some people however are so argumentative that it does actually no good to debate with them.
 
Check stats for Australia and UK and see what happened to their violent crime rates after they banned guns. Staggering! Not to mention, according to Dr. Ignatius Piazza from front sight, more people have drowned in pools than have been shot by mass murders in the past decade. Also, the guy at Newtown does have mental health issues, as did the guy in Aurora, the guy in Arizona who shot Gabby Giffords, etc. . . they have all been found to have issues.

As for the why, because the Constitution says I can.
 
I hope you can come to some understanding with your sister, but from my experience with antis, is that they're not interested in understanding anything but their own manner of Alinksyist shouting down of those they disagree with.
Best of luck.

If this were my sister, I'd tell her that I love her but her reasoning on the 2nd Am. is highly flawed, naive, and possibly even dangerous to me and my family. I have a cousin who was like my best friend since we kids. We grew up in houses less than 20m from eachother, went to the same school, played games, went fishing, everything. He was my buddy. 3 years ago we had a huge arguement over gun ownership and use, and about the 2nd Ad, and so on. That was the last time we've spoken. I've sent him X-mas cards and but he has never replied in kind.

At this point I'm not even sure that antis would even care if your blood, if you disagree with them on a fundamental issue, they might as well disown you.
 
I've had this argument with one of my sisters. She's left wing anti gun etc etc. Her mind is made up, guns are dangerous and after trying to convince her otherwise, I gave up. I even invited her to the pistol range for training. She would have no part of it. At least my other sister and brother sides with me!

If your sister is like mine, all I can say is just love her, she's family, and just leave it at that. Maybe she'll have a change of heart one day.
 
SC4006, . . . I feel for you in your situation. I also can tell you without any doubt whatsoever, . . . there is hope, . . . for you both.

The problem wall you are trying to climb is similar to trying to persuade a chronic alcoholic into drinking lemonade and hot tea.

There is a euphoric, emotional, happy, uplift, great, grand, and glorious feeling in the minds of both when they are doing "their thing": the drunk drinking, and your sister using her talking points she learned from her liberal sources to try to "talk you down".

You are not capable of using straight grained logic to get through to either one.

Sit and watch, . . . be supportive, . . . but observe the chinks in her "armor" that allow you to enter through the emotional door, . . . that is where she is listening today, . . . and where you will meet her.

Anecdotally, . . . I saw a man one day, a full drunk, one who put a 2 liter coke in one hand, fifth of Jim Beam in the other, poured them together into a 16 oz tumbler, . . . when he got it full: "Well, there's breakfast", . . . I saw and heard him tell his sister to go get him a 6 pack of 7Up.

Why? I had finally gotten through to him that he was dying, . . . he had only a few days, . . . he needed to dry up while he could. Emotionally, he was a total wreck, . . . but at the same time, . . . sober, mind changed, and believe me, . . . logic and facts didn't do it, . . . the emotional light went on in his head, . . . there was in fact a change of heart.

Your sister will have to have some "emotional" input to get her to have a change of heart. Pointing out that the 15 yr old in Texas who saved himself and his sister by using an AR against two aggressors and similar stories can help, can be a start.

Unfortunately, for us 2A people, . . . the gun grabbers all too well know this tactic, . . . and used it so far very successfully, . . . especially in NY.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
Thanks for all of the support guys! I gained a lot of great information, things I probably wouldn't have thought to say in an argument. I will make sure to read some of that thread too Kimio. As for my sister going to the range, she has already made up her mind... that is an absolute no. I've even showed her how my bolt action .22 works, but she wanted no part of it. I think she is just too stubborn to really take in any points I have to offer, but maybe if I tell her instances where guns have saved lives, which there are all too many of, she will think about it.
 
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