I have a theory...

D

DAL

New member
I'll probably get flamed for this (I don't care), but I'm wondering if a case couldn't be made for all of these big, a$$-kicking magnum calibers coming about because people are so much larger (fatter) now than they were in years past and they can better absorb the recoil. (I read something recently that said more than 50% of Americans are overweight, the highest percentage in our history.) Also, the magnums undoubtedly shoot flatter farther than the non-magnum calibers, making skillful stalking (something I've never been accused of) less of an issue for those unwilling or unable to do so.

Please feel free to rip, tear, and ream my theory with your thoughts and ideas. But let's keep it civil.
DAL
 
As a certified big dude: I have no clue. But fat still hurts. :) I don't think that would make much difference.
 
View From Small Guy

I think the reason more people are shooting "Powerful" calibers is due to the fact that rifles today are designed to minimize the "pain" associated with these cartridges. For example, I have a Swedish M96 rifle in 6.5X55 and a Sako in 7 Rem Mag. Both rifles weight about 9.5lb complete with scope, sling, etc. but the M96, despite the "weaker" cartridge, is much more uncomfortable to shoot due to short stock, steel butt plate, stock design, etc. I can shoot about 30 rounds of 6.5X55 from my M96 while I have shot over 50 rounds of 7 Rem Mag in my Sako without discomfort. Most people will shoot the most powerful cartridge they can handle.
 
Flat trajectory.

For a given number of hunters, more and more are "city folks" who aren't used to estimating range when out in the boonies. The flat trajectory of the 7mm Rem Magnum takes a lot of the guesswork out of figuring how far away a deer or elk is--which is why it became the first of the very-popular magnum cartridges. Most of the other similar cartridges came about because we are a nation of tinkerers.

The second factor, which is a bit newer, is that many shooters are competing with themselves as to how accurate they can be at long range. Add to this the fact that hunting pressures have increased through the years, and it is more difficult to get within closer distance to a quality trophy. So, since you need more "Oomph" at 400 yards than at 100...Sort of a package deal, really. At any rate, this is part of the reason for things like the .338, etc.

My $0.02,

Art
 
DAL, that is an interesting theory, but I really do not think that the size of a person has that much to do with his ability to handle recoil. I think like "taco" does that the newer shapes of stocks and recoil pads make shooting a heavier recoiling rifle less painful than some older ones. I can remember that 03A3 of mine in the original military configuration. You KNEW when it went off. The change to a sporter stock took a lot of the sting out of it. My 7MM Mag in Rem. 700 seems to kick less than the 06 does. I think another thing is as technology progresses and better cartridges that can really reach out become avaliable people will use them, just as we use all the newer tricks to improve accuracy. I can remember back to the early 60's when a factory MOA rifle was something to be treasured, today a factory MOA rifle is just sameold sameold.
 
I guess I should have clarified them. To me, any magnum meant for non-dangerous North American game that's bigger than the 7mm RM or .300 WM.

Art, thanks for the perspective. I never thought of increased hunting pressure as one reason for the need to shoot longer distances.

taco, I've no doubt you're correct about the design of newer rifles, especially if muzzle brakes and special recoil pads are factored in.
DAL
 
Dal. When I was a youngster in my late teens and early 20's, I shot a friends Remington Mod. 700 in .300 Win. Mag. he hadn't put a scope on it yet, so the rifle was fairly light. (7 lbs. maybe?) I thought it was a pussycat. Now my 7.5 lb. Winchester Mod70 with synthetic stock borders on the mildly uncomfortable. The difference? In my teens, I weighed 130 lsb. soaking wet, and now I'm 225 lbs. soaking wet. So yes, I feel that size and weight may be a factor. When I was a lightweight, like a willow, I bent with the recoil. Now when the gun goes off, I'm like the Chevy commercial. Like a rock! I don't bend with it anymore. And because I don't give, they hurt more. I still shoot some of the magnums, 300 Win., .338 Win. 375X338 Mag. and .375 H&H, but not to the level I did 40 some odd years ago.
maybe I'm just a stick in the mud, but I really don't see that much use for some of these hot shot magnums they're coming out with. Kind of reminds me of the "muscle car" wars in the mid 60's to almost the 80's. Now it's "muscle guns".
While I personally don't approve of them, I'll go along with what Elmer Keith once said. "Every man is entitled to scratch his own fleas in his own way."
Paul B.
 
Um, Uncle Art, with all due respect...

are you forgetting the venerable H&H Magnums, 300 and 375, which preceed the 7mm Rem by a goodish bit, 40 or 50 years?

DAL to answer your question, I think it has to do with marketing.

A gun has a useful life of several centuries if cared for and fresh ammo is available. We could all be using grandpappy's caplock rifle or even great great grandpappy's flintlock. OK, here is a more reasonable example. The Win '73 was manufactured until 1929. Would anyone feel undergunned with a 70 year old rifle? The model 94 is still made, over one hundred years of continuous manufacture. Yet, you can still get a 50 year old model 94 and use it for hunting as good as a brand new one. The gun manufacturers know this, therefore they have to come up with something "new" every few years or their sales dry up. Hence the 7mm Magnum which adds about 25 - 30 yards more point blank range than the 30'06 -- big deal. But the mfrs don't tell you that. They say something like, reaches out and touches them like nothing else. It's all about marketing. Remember also that Winchester needs a new one, Rem needs a new one, Weatherby needs a new one, just like the auto makers.

My belief: If you can't hit them because of distance with a 30'06, a 7mm Mag is not going to help you either. A box of magnum shells costs more than a standard caliber too. This is not to say that there is not a need for big bores like 375 or 458, they have their place, but anything between a 30'06 and a 375 is just frosting on the cake.
 
I've fired the .458 Win Mag and 416 Rigby. The former was ported and the latter wasn't. You can guess which one I would carry.

That said, how about the issue of detached retina from firing a big belted magnum?
 
da blast and kick

In the beginning I preferred massive recoil and blast and reloaded that way. Toward the end (now) my hearing is shot and my shoulder still hurts. And like Paul and others I'm now like a rock in terms of flexibility but not physically. So I'm now into comfort and accuracy so those overbored barrel eating cartridges no longer interest me.
McBoom
 
DAL;

When I stopped laughing, I thought about it for awhile and decided that just the reverse is true. As Paul B and others said, now that I'm older and "larger/thicker", although I still shoot a 7mm Rem Mag, I don't like the "a$$-kicker" mags and other large bores like I used to. As a matter of fact, I'm discovering that I can do LOTS of things with a .223 Rem that I used to do with .270's and up. Mostly, though, I tend to do more "fun" shooting - targets, benchrest, etc. and I can do it to my heart's content with a .223 or a .22WMR or even a .22LR and avoid the abuse to my shoulder altogether. ;)

P.S. I'm working on a post-Christmas diet, so maybe I'll start liking the magnums again soon - ya think?? - Nahhhhhh! :cool:
 
Ditto The Plainsman. The desire for bigger and better numbers was something I suffered from in my youth. I've now reached the age where carrying too much gun around just ruins a nice walk in the woods.

The only "magnum" I've hunted with in recent years is a 44 Magnum lever that scopes out just under 7 pounds.

Tom
 
Flat-shooting/easier to hit with is the imperative at work here.

I use a .270 Winchester (Steyr-Mannlicher); not exactly a magnum, but serves me in good stead. I don't think the shooting industry has developed the sophistication of body-fat demographics that you allude to in the development of their product line. Just my opinion.
 
makes me think back a couple of years ago about a young man here who wanted to take me deer hunting (twist MY arm) in NW Missouri. Had a lot of range time but very little in the field. His father didn't hunt so he'd never been. He had several rifles in various calibers up to and including a 375 H&H Colt Sauer. Asked me what to take-the farm of his uncle was sectioned off in 400 yard plots, so I said his 308 would do nicely if sighted in appropriately. This young man is around 230 pounds on a 5'7" frame. Got in the stand and this magnificant 10 point buck came running out of the treeline, running diagonally away from us, and I kept telling him to shoot. He didn't. I asked him why. He told me he didn't think the bullet would kill that far. I told him to quit reading about the magnum of the month and concentrate on shooting. We are going to try it again this year, but before the season starts, we are going to work at this magnum-mania and put it in perspective!
 
4V50 Gary,

Hehe try a 1.75oz 10ga Slug, from one of those single barrel lightweight break action shotguns!!! OUCH!!!! Even with a recoil pad it still HURTS!!!! The 458win mag is a baby compared to this in terms of recoil..
 
Thanks!

All of the comments so far have been enlightening; perhaps my theory could stand some reworking. From the comments here, it seems that recoil sensitivity is more a function of age than of size. That dovetails with my experience, which I'll detail below.

I bought my .30-06 in 1978 when I was 18. Thank God the magnum mania wasn't as strong then as it has become or I might have bought something too big for my 120-pound frame to handle. Using Federal Premium 165 gr. BTSP ammo, I sighted it in with little notice of the recoil. Sure, after a box my shoulder was a bit bruised, but I recovered quickly. I hunted with it over the next few years, and then I put it away as I concentrated on school and females (I was somewhat more successful with the former than the latter, although things turned out okay eventually).

About 15 years later, my interest in guns and shooting reawakened, so I pulled out the '06, took along a couple boxes of the aforementioned Federal ammo which had been languishing all this time in my ammo box, and headed to the range. Imagine my surprise when I touched off the first round and felt a whomp I didn't remember in my youth. After only six(!) rounds, my 145-pound frame had had enough. I wimped out and had a shock-absorbing recoil pad (there had been no pad before) and a muzzle brake put on the rifle. Maybe I could have gotten by with just the pad, but it was a package deal. Now, I can shoot the rifle all day comfortably.

What changed in those 15 years? The rifle was the same, the ammo was the same, so obviously I had changed. My threshold for pain (at least in this area) must have lowered by at least half. Ain't getting older wonderful? You gain in some areas and you lose in others.

Thanks to all of you for helping me work through this. Now I think I have a better handle on things in this area.
DAL

P.S. DAVID NANCARROW, "230 pounds on a 5'7" frame"?!

[Edited by DAL on 01-09-2001 at 07:47 PM]
 
There's another reason, sheer stupidity....

Every year some starry eyed new magnum shooter tells me that they missed a "Good'un" last fall with their 30-06/ 308/6.5X55/270 or another fine deer caliber and so they went and got a 300 Mag Loudenboomer or BIGGER. Most just get the thing bore sighted and sally forth ready to miss or worse, wound another critter or six.

They didn't shoot their old rifles much. Now, with more expensive ammo and more kick, they shoot less. It's a vicious spiral downward, until they give it up or actually smarten up.

Range story....

Buddy and I were shooting off a few centerfires at the 100 yard benchrests, making nice little groups right where they should be. A guy who we had seen there a few times came up and asked if we could take a look at his rifle, he was having trouble staying on the paper. We assented, and he produced a semi custom lightweight on a Remington 700 action in 270. After checking the scope mounts and bedding pressure, we asked if one of us could take a few shots with it. He was grateful, and I snuggled in behind the sandbags with his handloads(after looking over his fired brass for pressure signs)and squeezed off what turned into the first round of a tight 3 rd group. He was amazed, and took it well when we said he was just a tad overgunned.That light 270 with its smaller than standard butt was kicking him a bit too hard, and he was building a flinch big time.

We had brought a 7x57 Mauser, a reworked 93, with a good bedding job and decent scope. It weighed about 1 1/2 lbs more than his prize, and he took it and cut an OK group with it after realizing it didn't hurt to shoot it.He also had brought a brand new 700 BDL in 25-06, and we got that zeroed and he shot it OK. This guy was just too recoil sensitive for that little 270. He said he'd trade it off for a standard weight one and left happy.

Instead of a big caliber Mag, or even a smaller one, most folks would be better off learning the ins and outs of their standard caliber rifles and working on their hunting skills to get within reasonable range. For most big game and bolt action centerfires, that would work out to about 200 yards.

And it would only take a few boxes of ammo and a few range trips to make most hunters deadly on game at those ranges.

There's way more 300-500 yd rifles than 300-500 yd shooters.
 
"There's way more 300-500 yd rifles than 300-500 yd shooters"

AMEN Dave McC!!!!! I wonder if that's why in my old age I am really starting to love that 25-06 and that M1 Garand (that 10 pound weight makes a pussycat out of mild loaded 30-06's? :)
 
Thanks. For the record, my personal longest shot at big game was a on a desert mule deer taken at about 275 yards with a borrowed 270 long ago. I live in Md, mostly hunt in shotgun counties now, and hunt with bow, muzzleloader, shotgun/slugs, and rifle once in a while. Average shot distance now runs about 35 yards.

I checked in 4 this season, so I must be doing something right....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top