I am typing this to you folks in hopes of finding some reassurance and support. (Smile)
Yesterday I went to one of my LGS that I've delt with many times in the past. With me, I had 2 pistols that just have not come to meet my needs or expectations. I was lookin' ta' trade and I had a fairly good idea of what I wanted in advance. I also had a few hundred dollar bills in my pocket threatening to burn right through to the skin if I didn't make 'em gone soon.
After having been given their offer of trade-in value and accepting I said, "I'm looking for a .22 revolver, what have you got?" "Nothing cheap please."
The fella I was being helped by smiled and pulled out a Ruger Single Six and a Ruger with the barrel combo. Now, as much as I like the idea of it, I've never been too fond of the grip style of the old west guns. There is some vein, nerve or old splinter in my hand that makes shooting them not as pleasant as say my beloved Ruger GP 100 gripped gun or my .44 Super Red Hawk. I looked them over and they were nice but when I put them in my hand and held them up to sight (away from all people in the store!) I just knew they wouldn't work for me. I asked what else he had, he asked what I wanted to do with it. When I mentioned target/paper/competition/teaching the daughters he grabbed the Ruger GP100 in .22 and then the S&W 617. I picked up the Ruger first because I have great appreciation and respect for their guns. I own several of them in fact and have been very, very pleased with them. I was honestly dissapointed with it. The trigger felt gritty and unpredictable as though there were metal shavings floating around in the frame somewhere. There were finishing marks on the frame in several places that just DIDN'T look finished. The sights were HI-VIZ style and great though.
Then, I picked up the S&W. It was different and....better. The gun "looked" good, the trigger was nice from what little I could determine because you shouldn't dry fire one. Unfortunately, I failed to check several aspects of the gun while the dealer talked to me about it. (Not that he was trying to distract me.) I really gave that gun AND the Ruger several grab-and-point efforts and tried to feel what was best. In the end, I chose the S&W. I've never owned a pistol worth that much money short of my Ruger Super Redhawk in .44.
I got it home and commenced to giving it it's first cleaning. I began to see things I'd not seen in the gun shop. The "list" came to mind as I examined the 617 further. The biggest, most glaring thing was the not properly crowned barrel. It was off center by a fair margin leaning to the left (barrel facing me). Then I noticed the flashing left over in the frame where the arm comes out to move the cylinder. I just couldn't understand how I'd missed it in the store. Spinning the cylinder took effort that I did not expect as well. It seemed "bound up" or something or too tight a fit on the rod. So...I cleaned and lubed it. I went online and started reading about crowns and came to the conclusion that I had to at least give it a chance according to the folks on the S&W forums.
Today I took it to the range with 7 different .22 ammo choices I have on hand. I believed I should give it a chance to show what it might be able to do. It didn't take long shooting it from a pistol rest in single action to realize the crown was not going to be good enough. No matter what I did, doing all the things I am supposed to do while shooting a revolver it would not make a group less than 1 and a half inches at 10 yards. I have been fortunate enough to shoot other guys 617s at my local range and they either stacked the rounds on top of each other or make less than 1/2" groups for me so I believe I know what they are capable of. I have a S&W 22A that will regularly shoot sub 1" groups with 4 of those types of ammo while I am standing and shooting iron sights only!
The cylinder remained hard to spin throughout my morning effort.
I eventually tried the gun double action and was really disappointed in the trigger feel. It was gritty and hard. Noticeably more so than the Ruger I tried at the LGS. Again, I've shot several S&W guns before and the triggers were nothing short of amazing...every one. This was way less than expected.
To top it off, by the end of my shooting session, the upper back of the hand grip was separating. I left the range feeling really bad. I'd not followed the Revolver Check Out and it had come back to bite me...HARD. The long ride home gave me time to reflect, put my big boy pants back on and decide to call S&W in hopes of some sort of solution. I talked to a rep. and told him my story. He was understanding and even openly apologetic. He gave me a return slip email and I'll be sending it off with a long winded (Much like this) letter to the folks at S&W on Monday morning.
I really hope they can make this what it should be and restore my faith in their manufacturing/Quality Control. I want to remain a consumer who appreciates and respects firearms made by Smith and Wesson.
If you've actually read all this...thanks. I look forward the hearing folks experiences, knowledge and lessons I've yet to learn.
All the best folks! CommandoX
Yesterday I went to one of my LGS that I've delt with many times in the past. With me, I had 2 pistols that just have not come to meet my needs or expectations. I was lookin' ta' trade and I had a fairly good idea of what I wanted in advance. I also had a few hundred dollar bills in my pocket threatening to burn right through to the skin if I didn't make 'em gone soon.
After having been given their offer of trade-in value and accepting I said, "I'm looking for a .22 revolver, what have you got?" "Nothing cheap please."
The fella I was being helped by smiled and pulled out a Ruger Single Six and a Ruger with the barrel combo. Now, as much as I like the idea of it, I've never been too fond of the grip style of the old west guns. There is some vein, nerve or old splinter in my hand that makes shooting them not as pleasant as say my beloved Ruger GP 100 gripped gun or my .44 Super Red Hawk. I looked them over and they were nice but when I put them in my hand and held them up to sight (away from all people in the store!) I just knew they wouldn't work for me. I asked what else he had, he asked what I wanted to do with it. When I mentioned target/paper/competition/teaching the daughters he grabbed the Ruger GP100 in .22 and then the S&W 617. I picked up the Ruger first because I have great appreciation and respect for their guns. I own several of them in fact and have been very, very pleased with them. I was honestly dissapointed with it. The trigger felt gritty and unpredictable as though there were metal shavings floating around in the frame somewhere. There were finishing marks on the frame in several places that just DIDN'T look finished. The sights were HI-VIZ style and great though.
Then, I picked up the S&W. It was different and....better. The gun "looked" good, the trigger was nice from what little I could determine because you shouldn't dry fire one. Unfortunately, I failed to check several aspects of the gun while the dealer talked to me about it. (Not that he was trying to distract me.) I really gave that gun AND the Ruger several grab-and-point efforts and tried to feel what was best. In the end, I chose the S&W. I've never owned a pistol worth that much money short of my Ruger Super Redhawk in .44.
I got it home and commenced to giving it it's first cleaning. I began to see things I'd not seen in the gun shop. The "list" came to mind as I examined the 617 further. The biggest, most glaring thing was the not properly crowned barrel. It was off center by a fair margin leaning to the left (barrel facing me). Then I noticed the flashing left over in the frame where the arm comes out to move the cylinder. I just couldn't understand how I'd missed it in the store. Spinning the cylinder took effort that I did not expect as well. It seemed "bound up" or something or too tight a fit on the rod. So...I cleaned and lubed it. I went online and started reading about crowns and came to the conclusion that I had to at least give it a chance according to the folks on the S&W forums.
Today I took it to the range with 7 different .22 ammo choices I have on hand. I believed I should give it a chance to show what it might be able to do. It didn't take long shooting it from a pistol rest in single action to realize the crown was not going to be good enough. No matter what I did, doing all the things I am supposed to do while shooting a revolver it would not make a group less than 1 and a half inches at 10 yards. I have been fortunate enough to shoot other guys 617s at my local range and they either stacked the rounds on top of each other or make less than 1/2" groups for me so I believe I know what they are capable of. I have a S&W 22A that will regularly shoot sub 1" groups with 4 of those types of ammo while I am standing and shooting iron sights only!
The cylinder remained hard to spin throughout my morning effort.
I eventually tried the gun double action and was really disappointed in the trigger feel. It was gritty and hard. Noticeably more so than the Ruger I tried at the LGS. Again, I've shot several S&W guns before and the triggers were nothing short of amazing...every one. This was way less than expected.
To top it off, by the end of my shooting session, the upper back of the hand grip was separating. I left the range feeling really bad. I'd not followed the Revolver Check Out and it had come back to bite me...HARD. The long ride home gave me time to reflect, put my big boy pants back on and decide to call S&W in hopes of some sort of solution. I talked to a rep. and told him my story. He was understanding and even openly apologetic. He gave me a return slip email and I'll be sending it off with a long winded (Much like this) letter to the folks at S&W on Monday morning.
I really hope they can make this what it should be and restore my faith in their manufacturing/Quality Control. I want to remain a consumer who appreciates and respects firearms made by Smith and Wesson.
If you've actually read all this...thanks. I look forward the hearing folks experiences, knowledge and lessons I've yet to learn.
All the best folks! CommandoX