I Can't Aim, wth!

C

ClownFish

New member
I'm way off when shooting my Sig229 .40 2 handed. I use different variations of gripping the weapon; 2 handed standard, left hand under mag, and left hand holding right wrist. I can't hit a bullseye but I do fairly well 1 handed. What am I doing wrong here? I don't believe the problem is that I have small hands because my 13 year old cousin can nail the mark on the targets with my sidearm a lot better than I can. That gives me a bad feeling. I'm dead accurate with my slug shooting shotgun and my .223, so why can't I seem to use the SIG? Someone help! :(
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ClownFish:
I'm way off when shooting my Sig229 .40 2 handed. I use different variations of gripping the weapon; 2 handed standard, left hand under mag, and left hand holding right wrist. I can't hit a bullseye but I do fairly well 1 handed. What am I doing wrong here? I don't believe the problem is that I have small hands because my 13 year old cousin can nail the mark on the targets with my sidearm a lot better than I can. That gives me a bad feeling. I'm dead accurate with my slug shooting shotgun and my .223, so why can't I seem to use the SIG? Someone help! :([/quote]


First of all, left hand under the magazine is the WRONG hold. That is a popular way to hold the gun in the movies, but in real life you want to use the 60-40 hold. In IPSC they teach us to wrap the supporting hand (40% pressure) around the strong hand (60% pressure). For a more detailed explanation, you should have a professional teach you...its hard to describe the hold in a one paragraph reply.
 
I beg to differ some what. The method you describe is commonly referred to as "cup and saucer" and is used by many shooters, including my self.
Instead of focusing on aimed fire try some point shooting. Take out some cheap ammo, relax, forget sights, forget stance and proper grip and point shoot. In a short time you should arrive at a natural shooting position that suits you. What works for someone else may not necassarily be best for you.

------------------
Gunslinger

I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ClownFish:
I'm way off when shooting my Sig229 .40 2 handed. I use different variations of gripping the weapon; 2 handed standard, left hand under mag, and left hand holding right wrist. I can't hit a bullseye but I do fairly well 1 handed. What am I doing wrong here?[/quote]

You're holding your gun wrong, that's what.

Look at some pictures on how to hold your pistol correctly.

There are some shooting stance demos on this page, near the bottom. Its a page geared for women, but its the best I can do at this hour. *yawn*
http://www.io.com/~cortese/resources/guns2.html
 
the left hand under mag isn't a good idea because its not as good at controling recoil. as the gun rises it might rise out of your left hand. also i've never heard of anyone who teaches grabing your shooting wrist.

the way i hold a pistol is i first get a 1 handed grip. then i place my weak hand hand on the grip with all 4 of my fingers under the trigger guard. i then extend my weak thumb strait along the top of the frame parallel with the slide. my strong thumb is on top of the weak thumb and also pointing forward. if you use a weaver stance then use isometric tention where your strong hand pushes forward and your weak hand pulls back. make sure you have a firm grip on the gun but not so strong as to make the gun shake in your hands.
 
A few weeks ago a local range owner showed me a magazine that had been destroyed by an over-charged reload fired in a steel framed pistol. It blew the welded bottom off of the mag. Took around $17K to fix the guy's hand. John
 
I don't know is there's such as a thing as a wrong grip, but the cup and saucer has at least one negative to it.

If you draw a pistol quickly and place the weak hand cupped under the strong you will push the pistol upward. This may not be an issue at the range while at the range, but making sure your pistol is completely empty and pointing in a safe direction, try some fast draws and you'll see how the weak hand pushes the strong hand upward. A weak hand over strong hand hold doesn't have this problem.

------------------
"Get yourself a Lorcin and lose that nickel plated sissy pistol."
 
You might be squeezing with your support hand
causing you to print all over the page. I can't be sure what's going on because I haven't seen you shoot. Just remember when you press the trigger you don't want to be tightening either hand. Your trigger finger,
in essence, must be disconnected from the rest of your hand. You must be able to depress the trigger without squeezing or tightening your grip ,in order to shoot accurately.
wirenut
 
Lots of opinions on this one. The best grip is no secret and you can see it in any of the instructional tapes or books. The vast majority of great IPSC shooters use very similar grips. For what it is worth, the majority of the pressure comes from the support hand.
 
One other caution: resting the bottom of the magazine on your hand, or anything else, can sametimes cause a misfeed. It can push the mag up slightly, but enough to drag on the slide, or misalign the round to be fed.

Safest thing is to just let that magazine hang there, not resting on your hand or anything.
 
ClownFish,

It is impossible to tell you what you are doing wrong without knowing what your grip and stance are like, and to know where you generally hit on the target.

Most of the problems I have seen are:

Hitting low = anticipating recoil. The muzzle drops imperceptibly just prior to firing.

Hitting left (right handed firer) = too little trigger finger and you end up pushing the gun.

Hitting right (right handed firer) = too much trigger finger and you end up pulling the gun.

Shooting slow and watching your front sight can help you diagnose right/left error. If you are hitting low, have a buddy load a mag with 3 to 5 rounds and include 1-2 dummy rounds. Then slowly fire each round focusing on the fundamentals. This is known as the ball and dummy drill and is great for diagnosing shooter error. Best of all, you see and feel it yourself, and then can correct it. Shoot about 50 rounds that way with a coach or friend and see if it doesn't help.

There are plenty of other shooter errors, but that's a start.

Regarding "Cup and Saucer," NO, NO, NO, NO!!!! Unfortunately it is still in the US Army pistol Field Manual, but the technique is crap for combat shooting. No offense to anyone, but here's why. The line of force for a pistol's recoil, goes to the rear and up with the action of the slide. None of us has the grip strength to maintain the same grip on the weapon. Essentially, the weapon rises off the "saucer" or out of the support hand. As an instructor, I have seen everyone who used that technique readjust their grip after practically every shot. That is not combat effective. A shooter may be able to shoot Slow Aimed Fire that way, but it is impossible to shoot fast and accurately. Again, no offense to anyone.

Regards,

Chuck
 
Thanx for the replies, I'll try some suggestions next time I go to the range. As for the "cup and saucer", I never even knew there was a name for it, or that anyone actually used it. I only did it for 3 rounds and hit way low to the right. Same as for the 60-40 hold, could be that I'm gripping with too much pressure :rolleyes:
 
Ignoring the three shots that you fired "cup and saucer", where do your shots group? Are you shutting your eyes just before the preak of the trigger? Are you "pushing" just before the shot? Are you not FOCUSING on the frontsight, and watching it throught the recoil? Are you maintaining proper followthrough (roughly meaning that you keep the sights alinged as long as possile into the recoil). Are you using a little isometric pressure to steady the gun? (Push slightly with firing hand, pull slightly with the non-firing hand). Please respond, and we'll continue to work on it.
 
I know you're probably done with the opinions, but this one's a bit different. You said that you hit better one handed. That's the key to my opinion.

When you hold one handed, the pistol is actually farther away from your body than the 2 handed hold. If you're shooting better this way, lets look at two possibilities.

1. You could be far sighted. Holding the gun farther from your face gives you a cleaner picture of the front sight.

2. You could be flinching. Again, because the gun is farther away with a one handed stance, you may feel more comfortable, therefore more accurate. Also, because only one hand is on the gun, the weight of the gun has a more stabilizing effect. Two hands, same gun weight, less stabilizing.

I'd look for the flinch first, then see an eye doctor if that doesn't help.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top