It took alot of practice and it took a lot of time mastering the Glock trigger, but I finally got 3 inch 5 rd group with a "Federal" brand conversion barrel in My G23 using 125 gn Gold Dot JHP ammo. Considering I have only been shooting pistols since feb. of 1999 I think the practice and shooting hours have paid off for me and I am convinced that Glocks are just as accurate or more so than most pistols on the market. So next time some one posts a message saying Glocks aren't accurate. I will have to surmise that they can't shoot worth a dam and that maybe they should take up basket weaving.
I beg to differ... My Glock did 3" @ 25yds
- Thread starter john232
- Start date
I've spent a lot of time and a fair amount of money trying to get some of my Glocks to shoot tighter, and never did much better than 3" @ 25 yards. I picked up an H&K USP 45 Expert about three months ago and can produce one hole groups @ 25 yards and 2"-3" groups @ 50 yards (factory stock-iron sights) using Cor-Bon 165gr @1300fps.
My glocks are gathering dust.
My glocks are gathering dust.
There is, of course, another way to look at it. I have a G19 that is a bedside gun and I also sometimes use it for carry. I consider the Glock a great combat handgun. However, I consider it to be a difficult gun to master. I've put over 1000 rounds through mine and I'm just getting used to it. I figure by 3000 rounds or so, I'll be as comfortable with my G19 as I was with my other 9mm pistols (Beretta and CZ) after 300 rounds. As you stated "It took alot of practice and it took a lot of time mastering the Glock trigger". And you stated that you got "3 inch 5 rd group". I take that as a singular group. When you can do this consistantly and from a variety of positions, then you will have a well shooting gun. (Give a monkey a bag of rocks and he'll eventually get a group like that also.) You also state that you used an after market barrel. There are stock guns that will shoot better than that - Sig, CZ, and Beretta come to mind. And they are easier to learn...
[This message has been edited by Gino (edited January 05, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Gino (edited January 05, 2000).]
Good shooting, John!
I am of the opinion that most guns are more accurate than the shooter can exploit. I know the better I do as a shooter, the better my guns seem to do, too.
Most of the accurizing that is done out there is for sale, not because it is necessary, IMHO. I shoot Glocks and Colt 45s, when you go to a Gold Cup, it is way, way beyond the capabilities of anybody I know. For that matter, so is the stocker Gummint Model, don't tell the whiz-bang hot rodders I said that! Ditto, for the Glock. It will shoot as tight as I can hold it.
Keep up the good work!
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Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
I am of the opinion that most guns are more accurate than the shooter can exploit. I know the better I do as a shooter, the better my guns seem to do, too.
Most of the accurizing that is done out there is for sale, not because it is necessary, IMHO. I shoot Glocks and Colt 45s, when you go to a Gold Cup, it is way, way beyond the capabilities of anybody I know. For that matter, so is the stocker Gummint Model, don't tell the whiz-bang hot rodders I said that! Ditto, for the Glock. It will shoot as tight as I can hold it.
Keep up the good work!
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
Mylhouse:
LMAO...where do I get one?
The rest of you:
Accuracy is kind of a relative thing. My G-35 consistently shoots 5 round groups, standing without support, inside of 3 inches at 25 yards. It took me tens of thousands of rounds over a period of two decades to get good enough to do that day in and day out with either the weak or strong hand from kneeling, barricade and standing. All B.S. put aside, 3 inch groups at 25 yards is very good shooting. However, I know many shooters who can do much better.
In my experience most guys who shoot three inches at 25 with their "3 inch gun", end up shooting about 8 inch groups at fifty from prone and sitting and 10” from the barricade. Shooter induced errors along with the innacurate firearm conspire to put the shooter in the basement. I hate to tell you this, but a six or eight-inch gun at fifty isn’t going to make you competitive in the Master Class (speaking of PPC) and probably won’t cut it going for top honors in Action Shooting (like the Bianchi Cup) either.
Yeah, my 3” at 25 yards Glock is good enough for “combat accuracy”. But compared to my Power Custom Revolvers, Davis PPC revolvers and Clark Long Heavy Slide, the Glock just doesn’t compare and can’t compete. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that the score fired by a shooter holding 8 inches at 50 yards with a gun shooting 3 or 4 inch groups will be much higher than the score fired with a gun capable of firing a 6 inch group. For that matter, assuming a random distribution across the target face, if a shooter shot the same group with a .38 and a .45 the score fired by the .45 will in all likelihood be higher. In a game where the deciding factor is often x-ring count, “combat accurate” guns have no place.
So maybe the average guy doesn’t need real accurate guns, but they are fun. I guess that is why I want all of my rifles to shoot under a minute of angle too.
“Only accurate rifles are interesting”. – Col. Townsend Whelen
Some of us feel the same way about handguns.
Had to add a P.S.
I see several shooters on-line who shoot 2 and 3-inch groups at fifty yards. I am not going to flame anyone or offer up disparaging remarks. I have seen the very best shooters in the world perform and some of them do on occasion churn out a four-inch group at 50 yards. On the contrary, if any of you guys can honestly shoot two and three inch groups at fifty, I still have enough “suck” in the shooting community to get you an invitation to the Bianchi Cup. If you want to go, drop me a line. No pun intended.
[This message has been edited by Ankeny (edited January 05, 2000).]
LMAO...where do I get one?
The rest of you:
Accuracy is kind of a relative thing. My G-35 consistently shoots 5 round groups, standing without support, inside of 3 inches at 25 yards. It took me tens of thousands of rounds over a period of two decades to get good enough to do that day in and day out with either the weak or strong hand from kneeling, barricade and standing. All B.S. put aside, 3 inch groups at 25 yards is very good shooting. However, I know many shooters who can do much better.
In my experience most guys who shoot three inches at 25 with their "3 inch gun", end up shooting about 8 inch groups at fifty from prone and sitting and 10” from the barricade. Shooter induced errors along with the innacurate firearm conspire to put the shooter in the basement. I hate to tell you this, but a six or eight-inch gun at fifty isn’t going to make you competitive in the Master Class (speaking of PPC) and probably won’t cut it going for top honors in Action Shooting (like the Bianchi Cup) either.
Yeah, my 3” at 25 yards Glock is good enough for “combat accuracy”. But compared to my Power Custom Revolvers, Davis PPC revolvers and Clark Long Heavy Slide, the Glock just doesn’t compare and can’t compete. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that the score fired by a shooter holding 8 inches at 50 yards with a gun shooting 3 or 4 inch groups will be much higher than the score fired with a gun capable of firing a 6 inch group. For that matter, assuming a random distribution across the target face, if a shooter shot the same group with a .38 and a .45 the score fired by the .45 will in all likelihood be higher. In a game where the deciding factor is often x-ring count, “combat accurate” guns have no place.
So maybe the average guy doesn’t need real accurate guns, but they are fun. I guess that is why I want all of my rifles to shoot under a minute of angle too.
“Only accurate rifles are interesting”. – Col. Townsend Whelen
Some of us feel the same way about handguns.
Had to add a P.S.
I see several shooters on-line who shoot 2 and 3-inch groups at fifty yards. I am not going to flame anyone or offer up disparaging remarks. I have seen the very best shooters in the world perform and some of them do on occasion churn out a four-inch group at 50 yards. On the contrary, if any of you guys can honestly shoot two and three inch groups at fifty, I still have enough “suck” in the shooting community to get you an invitation to the Bianchi Cup. If you want to go, drop me a line. No pun intended.
[This message has been edited by Ankeny (edited January 05, 2000).]
Tsk, tsk, will this ever end? Be happy with what you got. I admire the tenacity of any person that will invest 3,000 rounds in mastering the trigger of a particular pistol. Since I don't have that sort of patience I prefer to use a pistol that works better for me with far less practice.
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So many pistols, so little money.
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So many pistols, so little money.
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
John - point is, Glocks are not as intrinsically accurate some other brands.
You are obviously at the top of your form with your gun - which is very impressive. Wish I could say the same about myself. Well, maybe with my Raven .25.
Practically speaking, (lots of opinions here) 5 inches at conversational distances seems plenty to me. As Jeff Cooper once pointed out, 99% of all civilian shooting scrapes are in conversational range.
Giz
You are obviously at the top of your form with your gun - which is very impressive. Wish I could say the same about myself. Well, maybe with my Raven .25.
Practically speaking, (lots of opinions here) 5 inches at conversational distances seems plenty to me. As Jeff Cooper once pointed out, 99% of all civilian shooting scrapes are in conversational range.
Giz
Daniel Watters
New member
Giz: Could we call that Minute of Perp accuracy? 
You guys will have to pardon me for my ignorance, but why are you looking for sub-3" 25-50 yard accuracy from a Glock? If I have to take a shot at 25-50 yards, know what gun I'd use? A rifle.
Now I can understand if you're shooting IPSC or a competition where one of those brown bad guy targets is a bit on the far away side, but for real-life shooting? I don't see where ANY handgun has a use at 25 yards.
Why?
If I ever had to open fire--even say at 7 yards (where I'm rarely outside the X-ring at the range)--the adrenaline would be pumping, I'd jerk the trigger, and aiming center-mass, the bullet would probably hit somewhere around the belt buckle. So much for inherent accuracy of ANY pistol.
Let's move out to 25 yards. When I'm at the range, I'm just happy to be anywhere inside the 5 ring here. In a real life situation at this distance, I'm going to look for something to duck behind, or just plain beat feet. Why? Lots of reasons: 1) I probably wouldn't hit the BG even if I did fire. 2) I may hit someone else. 3) If I DID fire and hit the bad guy, I wouldn't want to have to explain to a jury why I felt someone 75 feet away from me posed an imminent threat of death where escape was impossible. 4) at 25 yards, the BG has a better chance of hitting me if I stop and try to fire rather than seek cover. 5) if the BG happens to be armed with a rifle and over 25 yards away, I really have no business trying to shoot him with a pistol.
I realize I'm missing the spirit of the original post, but I never saw why anyone would seek long-distance accuracy from a side arm. Just my humble opinion. Feel free to critique me--always open to learning something new.
Tango
Now I can understand if you're shooting IPSC or a competition where one of those brown bad guy targets is a bit on the far away side, but for real-life shooting? I don't see where ANY handgun has a use at 25 yards.
Why?
If I ever had to open fire--even say at 7 yards (where I'm rarely outside the X-ring at the range)--the adrenaline would be pumping, I'd jerk the trigger, and aiming center-mass, the bullet would probably hit somewhere around the belt buckle. So much for inherent accuracy of ANY pistol.
Let's move out to 25 yards. When I'm at the range, I'm just happy to be anywhere inside the 5 ring here. In a real life situation at this distance, I'm going to look for something to duck behind, or just plain beat feet. Why? Lots of reasons: 1) I probably wouldn't hit the BG even if I did fire. 2) I may hit someone else. 3) If I DID fire and hit the bad guy, I wouldn't want to have to explain to a jury why I felt someone 75 feet away from me posed an imminent threat of death where escape was impossible. 4) at 25 yards, the BG has a better chance of hitting me if I stop and try to fire rather than seek cover. 5) if the BG happens to be armed with a rifle and over 25 yards away, I really have no business trying to shoot him with a pistol.
I realize I'm missing the spirit of the original post, but I never saw why anyone would seek long-distance accuracy from a side arm. Just my humble opinion. Feel free to critique me--always open to learning something new.
Tango
Tango, Is 25 yards really that far? I shoot with a group of fellows in a regular informal competition who keep nearly all their shots in the 9 ring of a B-9 target at 50 feet. One fellow, whose name you would recognize from this forum, usually puts all his shots in the X ring with a 9mm. Of course, no one is shooting back, but it is done. Reddog
Most shootings occur under seven feet accourding to the FBI- so ANY gun on the market is more than adequate for defensive purposes as long as it goes bang... I would hope...
Target, recreation, and competition is entirely different- here, accuracy counts a lot.
A defensive gun might not make a compitition gun, but it goes both ways.
Tome, Glocks are great defensive/ combat pistols- one of the best...
A tricket out 1911 may be too- for a comp gun, it definitly is...
Erik- more concerned with the seven feet.
Target, recreation, and competition is entirely different- here, accuracy counts a lot.
A defensive gun might not make a compitition gun, but it goes both ways.
Tome, Glocks are great defensive/ combat pistols- one of the best...
A tricket out 1911 may be too- for a comp gun, it definitly is...
Erik- more concerned with the seven feet.
I've never measured it but it seems that my front sight (1/8" wide) covers prolly 12" at fifty yards. A 3 inch group is therefore, impressive. Correct me if I'm wrong. Sometimes I'm math challenged!
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Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
Nice shooting, John. The true indicator of a good group with a pistol is it shows that YOU are CONSISTANT with the trigger (and sight alignment). Very important. And you've got it.
The intristic accuracy of the pistol is less important, as no one can shoot 3" (or whatever) under combat conditions. With a pistol, one has to hit quickly and accurately due to the inherant lack of power of the handgun.
Shooting groups with a handgun is a good occasional drill (do it standing, kneeling, prone, one hand, weak hand). But don't worry if it's not as tight as some gunwriter says his is. All that's important is that you can hit what you want, on demand (certainly easier said than done).
Glocks do have different triggers, but they're good "combat" triggers and not too tough to master. IMHO, most guys who badmouth Glocks have done very little shooting with them, or dry-fired one in a gunstore once.
If you want to have fun (or be driven nuts), shoot groups with a rifle.
[This message has been edited by DAVE MOON (edited January 06, 2000).]
The intristic accuracy of the pistol is less important, as no one can shoot 3" (or whatever) under combat conditions. With a pistol, one has to hit quickly and accurately due to the inherant lack of power of the handgun.
Shooting groups with a handgun is a good occasional drill (do it standing, kneeling, prone, one hand, weak hand). But don't worry if it's not as tight as some gunwriter says his is. All that's important is that you can hit what you want, on demand (certainly easier said than done).
Glocks do have different triggers, but they're good "combat" triggers and not too tough to master. IMHO, most guys who badmouth Glocks have done very little shooting with them, or dry-fired one in a gunstore once.
If you want to have fun (or be driven nuts), shoot groups with a rifle.
[This message has been edited by DAVE MOON (edited January 06, 2000).]
I like accurate guns, and spend way too much time and money to make my autos perform like my wheels.
I prefer 3" at 50 yard capability. My carry 1911, EAA 9x19/41AE, and M20(Jarvis barrel) are all 5" or better at 50 yards.
The 1911 is best (but I have a Nowlin-barreled EAA Witness that's close!).
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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
I prefer 3" at 50 yard capability. My carry 1911, EAA 9x19/41AE, and M20(Jarvis barrel) are all 5" or better at 50 yards.
The 1911 is best (but I have a Nowlin-barreled EAA Witness that's close!).
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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
The Glocks, from what many GlockTalkers have stated, were designed for 3" groups out to 25 yards. It's a combat gun not a Wilson Combat 1911 flea killer.
I've been able to frequently shoot 2" groups at that distance, modified Weaver stance standing strong side. Weak side = 3-4 inch groups @ 25 yards. So it can be done.
The problem with Glocks is that they're like genitals. Everybody's got one. So the claimed accuracy goes way down because there are still way too many people that shoot once a month/quarter and they're lucky if they hit the black or the paper at all.
Congratulations!
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The Seattle SharpShooter
If it can't shoot jacketed rat turds powered by mouse farts, I ain't gonna shoot it!
I've been able to frequently shoot 2" groups at that distance, modified Weaver stance standing strong side. Weak side = 3-4 inch groups @ 25 yards. So it can be done.
The problem with Glocks is that they're like genitals. Everybody's got one. So the claimed accuracy goes way down because there are still way too many people that shoot once a month/quarter and they're lucky if they hit the black or the paper at all.
Congratulations!
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The Seattle SharpShooter
If it can't shoot jacketed rat turds powered by mouse farts, I ain't gonna shoot it!
I was able to rapid fire 10 rounds with my Glock 19, weak hand, at 25 metres, I went down range to look at the damage and...
One ragged .355" hole in the target, best I can figure it they all went through that one hole!
Now if that isn't a tribute to the accuracy of Glocks I don't know what is!
I haven't been able to repeat that with my other guns. For some reason they all end up with ten seperate holes in the target.
[This message has been edited by SharpCdn (edited January 06, 2000).]
One ragged .355" hole in the target, best I can figure it they all went through that one hole!
Now if that isn't a tribute to the accuracy of Glocks I don't know what is!
I haven't been able to repeat that with my other guns. For some reason they all end up with ten seperate holes in the target.
[This message has been edited by SharpCdn (edited January 06, 2000).]
Please excuse my incredably large head! I probly should have mentioned that to get the groups I mentioned above it takes me about a full minute to fire all ten rounds. My goal is to start shooting faster strings now that I know what the gun is capable of. I've owned glock's for over 10 years and was never able to shoot that good, mabey it was the gun, mabey it was me, mabey it was both.
But now I have the confidance that I was never able to acheve with Glocks. Most of the shooters that I play with own several Glocks and have put thousands of rounds thru them. But most will say that they are not very conducive to accuracy. Weather it's the gun itself, the way they operate or interact with the shooter. All I can say is that I now shoot (semi-auto pistlols) better than I ever have before and will never look at Glocks quite the same.
[This message has been edited by HKMark23 (edited January 06, 2000).]
But now I have the confidance that I was never able to acheve with Glocks. Most of the shooters that I play with own several Glocks and have put thousands of rounds thru them. But most will say that they are not very conducive to accuracy. Weather it's the gun itself, the way they operate or interact with the shooter. All I can say is that I now shoot (semi-auto pistlols) better than I ever have before and will never look at Glocks quite the same.
[This message has been edited by HKMark23 (edited January 06, 2000).]