I am shooting better in DA. Not Flinching

R

redlightrich

New member
Hello all, a few months ago, I bought a GP100 revolver in 22lr. I shoot a lot of target and a ton of 22lr.

I am not flinching. 22 barely makes noise and does not recoil. I have noticed now thru several outings that I am much more accurate in DA. I can't understand as the DA trigger is heavier and longer.

I read a thread where a fellow said he was switching from SA to DA because his flinch.

One fellow recommended to add a laser to the gun with rubber bands and dry fire and see what is happening. I will probably try this.

I can shoot all my other guns ( autos) considerably better than my revolver. I still like it a lot, despite it being way harder to clean. I like it enough to where I am determined to work to improve while using the gun.

Any new ideas or recommendations?

Rich
 
Practice Practice Practice. I finally got my revolver groups to where they are comparable to my semi-auto groups. It just takes practice.

Same with cleaning the revolver, by the way. I can actually have my GP100, S&W 686, or my S&W 617 in "gunstore clean" condition in about 15 minutes. There is a learning curve for that, too.

My approach for cleaning: (for stainless revolvers, not blued)

1. Hoppes 9 on the cylinder face, the lower part of the backstrap, and around the forcing cone.

2. Then apply a brass brush and follow up with a cloth to wipe clean. In extreme situations a Lead Away cloth can finish up getting the crud off.

3. Then a brass rod/brush followed by cloth patches down the cylinders and the barrel.

This all takes maybe 15 minutes.
 
So you are flinching while shooting a GP100 single action?
Your double action shooting is just masking your flinching problem.
No need to completely tear down a dbl action revolver in order to clean it. Swab the barrel and chambers, wipe and maybe brush inside the frame window and forcing cone area.
 
DA revolver shooting with 22s is a blast. I recently dug out my old High Standard Sentinel .22 and opened a box of Federal Auto Match. Now I learned this stuff back when metro academies were still teaching DA revolver skills and insisting you qualify if you liked your paycheck. So I channel my old academy days with the rangemaster bellowing "Front Sight!! ROLL that trigger STRAIGHT BACK, recruits and I better not see a ______ thumb on anybody's hammer! Jesus!!"

I was soon bouncing tin cans at 10 yards and taking down 6" plates at 25, shooting DA only. Since I was on a roll I backed up to 50 yards. Just like riding a bicycle.

2016-08-27%2015.40.39_zpspbsbhos9.jpg
 
If you don't want to dry fire your rimfire revolver or can't always go to the range, get one of these:
http://www.crosman.com/3576-revolver-pistol-177
They are very realistic, accurate and only cost about $50 or less.
It will definitely help and provide a lot of convenient practice.
Better than dry fire since you will have actual feedback making holes in the target without risking damaging your rimfire gun.
 
A GP 22 weighs 42 ounces. Couldn't have felt recoil if it wanted to. snicker. Mind you, neither does its big brother at 45 ounces and an inch more barrel. Both of 'em still need a trigger job out of the box though. Cleaning a .22 vs a .357 is just a matter of changing tools. Isn't any more difficult.
However, the "barely makes noise and does not recoil" is probably why any flinch went away. As with any .22(or any firearm if you're not reloading) you have to try a box of as may brands as you can to find the ammo it shoots best. The cost of that ammo means nothing.
 
A good way to work on flinching is with a partial empty gun.
Have some one load anywhere from several to the full cylinder and hand the gun to you so you don't know when it will and when it wont fire.
You can see what your doing when you "don't" fire the gun.
It helps.
 
Hello all and thank you for the replies. I think someone read the title wrong, and others followed it.

I am NOT flinching. I don't flinch. I am just having difficulty being accurate with this gun.

Last night, I went into my garage, and loaded the cylinder with spent 22 shells and then I took my 556 laser bore sight ( its the size of a 556 case) and I fastened it to the GP100 barrel with a rubber band, I used tape as a barrier to avoid scratches.

Then I sighted approx 40 feet away, worked the trigger, and I was surprised that the laser was moving much more in double action than in single action. The bore sight method was showing me what I originally expected ( single action to be more accurate) , but at the range, I was shooting better with double action? Common wisdom would dictate that single action with it's light trigger pull would help stay on target, yet I struggle for accurate shots in single action.

One thing I did notice is when I use the first pad of my finger in SA, the laser sight moved much more than when I used the second joint of my finger to pull the trigger. Of course, using all my auto pistols, I operate the trigger with the first pad of my finger. I watched a video of a man ( who seemed quite experienced) shooting a GP100 in .357, but he used the second joint of the trigger finger.
For some reason, this gun feels more "right" when I use the 2nd finger joint?

Any thoughts on this?

I am going to get my target set up, and try to sight the gun in again, and then try different ammo. Maybe I just need to learn this gun better. I do like it so much, it eats whatever I feed it, feels good in my hand, and now with the new hammer spring, goes bang every time!!!

Thanks for the input!!!

Rich
 
While the objectives of good DA revolver work are widely known, there can be no ‘pat’ set of instructions that will work for all shooters. The foundation element of good DA revolver work is the grip, and you simply cannot tell someone how to do that. The variables of hand size, hand strength and handgun grips make it an individual journey, which can be made easier by a shooting coach that knows his stuff. Once that is accomplished, the objective is to send the shot away with as little disturbance as possible to the sight picture.

http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/good-double-action-revolver-shooting/
 
Thank you Sarge, that was a nice quick read, but had a lot of good info.

As everything else in life, practice makes perfect. I probably shot 20k rounds this year alone, so far, but only 1500 or so with the GP.
I like it enough to devote the time to learn it.

My next outing with it, I will try to use my second finger joint, and see if anything changes. The GP100 fits my hand quite differently than any other of my guns.

My most accurate gun, is a Kimber 1911. I have a few 1911's and I shoot the Kimber the most. I also have converted this gun to 22lr ( using Kimber's kit) and using it, I am very accurate.
I realize it is apples and oranges comparison, as it would be hard to find a better trigger set up than the 1911.

I know however, that revolvers can be used accurately. I watch that guy Jerry M do some terrific stuff using a revolver with an even shorter barrel/sight radius.

I would like to spend some time training with a real expert that is truly an expert shooter and has skill training. As an analogy, when I played hockey, I had the worlds best ( at the time) goalie teach me things in 30 minutes that I was trying to accomplish well for years. I was quickly able to apply these learned techniques.
I am sure some one on one instruction would help me here. Yes it is fun practicing, but being able to hit your mark consistently is more fun.

I have a scoped 10/22, which is so accurate that it is almost boring. I doubt I can ever get near that level of accuracy with any revolver, but it will be fun trying!!!!!

Thank you all for your input. It really is helpful!!

Rich
 
The best advice I can give you is to grip the gun firmly and concentrate on the sights through and beyond the trigger stroke. On the stroke itself what you are looking for is smooth-quick, but not so forceful as to inordinately disturb the revolver at the end of the stroke. Work on this 1-2 shots at at time and try to make each one perfect. The set the gun down or holster it, pick it up and start over. It'll eventually flow together and you'll be rapping off six shots with respectable accuracy.
 
I am NOT flinching. I don't flinch. I am just having difficulty being accurate with this gun.
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If your sights are aligned when the shot breaks, your shot will be true. If you're having difficulty being accurate, then, your sights aren't aligned (with each other and/or with the target) as the shot breaks.

Even though you're shooting a .22, it could certainly still be a flinch: A lot of flinch isn't muzzle blast/recoil-induced. It's induced by anticipation and/or some subconscious desire to make a good shot (i.e. focusing on the result instead of the execution), both of which are difficult to replicate in dry fire.

Your sights might also lose their alignment at the moment the shot breaks because you are subconsciously 1) losing concentration at that moment, 2) trying to make a good shot by pushing the gun towards where you subconsciously think it ought to be at that moment, or 3) simply just (subconsciously, of course) want the shot gone. Any and all these habits are very common and take effort and effective practice to cure.

As to SA vs DA, people often find DA a bit easier because they can roll through the break, whereas they get a bit of "chicken finger" with the SA break. As Sarge mentioned, good grip is important, too.

As to instruction, I can certainly recommend finding a good wheelgunner. By their nature, handgun matches attract excellent shooters. IDPA, USPSA, ICORE and bullseye matches often have revolver shooters, and IDPA, USPSA and ICORE is all done DA. Perhaps you can go watch, and ask around to see if there's a really good revolver shooter there who'd be willing to work with you.
 
Again, I thank you all for your input. I do have another question. Is it possible to flintch with one gun, but not another? My brother in law comes shooting with me sometimes or I go with him. He is a very experienced shooter, and we watch and critique each other.

We sometimes have small "contests" and we are about even. He is better at some things and vice versa.

One day, thru several of these contests, we wound up dead even. I gave the win to him, being we were working with my gun. I felt that was a distinct advantage for me.

He watched my form while we were using my 1911, and felt I was doing well, as he was. He marveled at the accuracy that came from that Kimber ( actually so do I, If all Kimbers worked as well as this one, they would certainly advertise that, and raise the price).

He has never watched me shoot the GP100. Is it possible that I flintch with the revolver and not the auto?

Based on the replies I already received, and based on the fact that the laser dry fire is not a complete replication of the conditions, I can't help but wonder this?

Can I flintch using one gun, but not another?

Thank you

Rich
 
I shoot a DA revolver better than anything, but back when I started in LE, that's what we were trained with.

For me, it's about grip and isolating the movement of the trigger finger from the rest of the hand. With a heavy long trigger pull, it takes practice and the understanding there will ALWAYS be some movement as that trigger is being pulled. You have to accept that, and "shoot through the arc" of that movement.
 
redlightrich said:
Is it possible to flintch with one gun, but not another?
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Well, it's possible you simply shoot your 1911 better because you have more trigger time with it.

Shooting DA well isn't easy, and it takes a lot of quality practice. It's possible you're flinching or anticipating with your revolver, but it's also very possible (likely, even), that your DA trigger stroke isn't smooth. As 849ACSO indicated, you must pull smoothly and consistently through the arc (and the break).

A smooth and consistent pull is key. A very common issue people have with the DA trigger is that they really yank it hard at the beginning, almost like they're trying to get through that arc as fast as possible. Guys like Miculek certainly do get through that arc quickly, but they're doing it smoothly, without yanking. A series of dry fire DA "shots" should be metronome-like - a smooth rhythmic click.click.click, rather than a staccato click....click....click. Matter of fact, it's a bit unorthodox, and something I discovered, but dry-firing to a metronome can be a big help to your DA trigger control.

The ol' coin-on-the-barrel drill is also a decent & remedial test for an inconsistent & yanking DA trigger pull.
 
A smooth and consistent pull is key. A very common issue people have with the DA trigger is that they really yank it hard at the beginning, almost like they're trying to get through that arc as fast as possible. Guys like Miculek certainly do get through that arc quickly, but they're doing it smoothly, without yanking. A series of dry fire DA "shots" should be metronome-like - a smooth rhythmic click.click.click, rather than a staccato click....click....click. Matter of fact, it's a bit unorthodox, and something I discovered, but dry-firing to a metronome can be a big help to your DA trigger control.
Click to expand...

Thanks! That was much better articulation than I was able to muster, but said exactly what I wanted to.
 
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