I am segregating R.P headstamp

[Real Gun]

In loading Hornady's 140 gr swaged lead COWBOY bullets in 38 Special on my Lee turret. I found that bullets had very little tension in Remington (R.P) cases compared to other brand cases. That means to me that the case walls are thin. I now have them sorted by head stamp and reserved the "R.P" head stamps for larger diameter, harder lead bullets. The Hornadys are just barely .358 and have no crimp groove, yet seem to be fine in all the other brass.

I am going to speculate that any +p brass, which I don't have, is different and better suited to higher pressures.

 

[Gunplummer]

I am guessing it probably is because they had a "Run" like that after set up. I usually find that Remington brass is on the high side of tolerance and thicker. I don't reload pistol ammo, so I may be wrong. I usually found Winchester to be thinner, softer, and on the low side of specs. I did a lot of forming and "Creating" of foreign brass and Winchester seemed to be the easiest to work with using new brass. It probably was just an odd run.

 

[condor bravo]

Among Fed, Rem and Win, Fed brass for both rifle and handgun seems to about always provide the greater neck tension. Win brass for both, especially '06 cases, but not so much with mag calibers, seems to about always provide the least tension. Rems fall somewhere in the middle for handgun cartridges while close to the Feds with rifle cartridges. Easy to spot the differences when using all three. I will not use Win cases for '06 loading for the Garand. Results in bullet set back if a round does not chamber properly and instead jams against the flat opening to the chamber.

 

[T. O'Heir]

+P brass is exactly the same as any other brass. It's head stamped +P so the factory doesn't mix 'em with standard pressure ammo.
Remington brass is the same as other brands too. All manufacturers make their brass to SAAMI specs. If you're having issues it's because the sizer die isn't set up correctly.
You can forget about crimping altogether if you're not loading for a lever action rifle. Revolvers don't need a crimp. Cowboy loads are just target loads. No crimp for them either.

 

[Sevens]

Remington brass is the same as other brands too. All manufacturers make their brass to SAAMI specs. If you're having issues it's because the sizer die isn't set up correctly.

This simply is not true and is quite easily felt in any single stage press. You could put 200 pieces of Federal .38 in a bowl and toss one single piece of R-P .38 in with it and I could find it blindfolded and find it easily in either the brass flare stage or easier in the seat/crimp stage.

The feedback/resistance in the press lever makes it very, very noticeable. I would urge others to try the same exercise.

It is more noticeable at times depending on what headstamps are in question and what calibers we are talking about. Not easy at all in 9mm, but in .38, .380, .40, 10mm and .45? Pretty easy to feel the difference.

 

[condor bravo]

From the above, the same certainly applies relative to '06 Fed cases against Win cases. Can easily detect the one Win case blindfolded from the Feds during sizing or bullet seating but not nearly so much so with Rem '06 cases. Often I thought I was processing Feds but turned out to be Rems.

 

[Unclenick]

I used to pitch all .45 Auto brass with an R-P headstamp for the same reason. It had necks on the thin end of SAAMI tolerance and they seemed to work harden quickly to the point of unusability. After I got my first Dillon press, though, the problem went away. Apparently the Dillon sizing die in my Square Deal is the pistol equivalent of a small base rifle die.

Remington uses 80:20 low brass alloy, instead of 70:30 cartridge brass, like Winchester and Starline use, but Federal uses the same low brass alloy and doesn't exhibit this problem. So I think it's an artifact of how they space annealings throughout the drawing process in forming the brass.

Toss it or get a Dillon sizing die is all I can suggest (but call Dillon first to make sure what I said about my .45 Auto die applies to their .38/.357 sizing die, too).

 

[Nick_C_S]

quite easily felt in any single stage press. You could put 200 pieces of Federal .38 in a bowl and toss one single piece of R-P .38 in with it and I could find it blindfolded

Yep. Me too. With ease. I'm sure other journeyman loaders could easily do the same.

For 38 Special, I segregate them out of the "pipeline." They came in handy when I firelapped my Smith 67 a few weeks ago. I would also use them if I thought I'd be in a situation where I wouldn't be able to retrieve my brass.

 

[Mauser69]

Absoluely Agree

Yep. Me too. With ease. I'm sure other journeyman loaders could easily do the same.

For 38 Special, I segregate them out of the "pipeline." They came in handy when I firelapped my Smith 67 a few weeks ago. I would also use them if I thought I'd be in a situation where I wouldn't be able to retrieve my brass.

I absolutely agree with this, and all of my .38 brass is at least 20 years old, so it is not a recent thing.

But I have not found the same thing with nickle plated .357 brass.

 

[Metal god]

Remington brass is the same as other brands too. All manufacturers make their brass to SAAMI specs. If you're having issues it's because the sizer die isn't set up correctly.

I disagree , I just started loading pistol a few months ago ( 9mm & 45acp ) and was going to use mixed brass like most said was no big deal . Well I found there was ( what I considered ) a big difference in head stamps . I started loading some dummy rounds and quickly notice , R.P. JAG Aguila and another all had much thinner wall thickness then FC , Win , Speer and others in my 45acp cases . Not only could I tell when sizing , It was more noticed when applying the crimp . I could barely feel the crimp die touch the RP and other thin walled cases but the FC , Win and others gave a good crimp feeling/resistance . FWIW all cases were trimmed to the same length .

I started measuring the walls and found the RP and others were .010-ish while the FC and Win were .0115-ish . I believe those were the numbers but don't have my notes in front of me . Either way they did measure smaller regardless of the actual measurement . Because of this I now have two lots of mixed brass for testing . Thin walled and standard sized walls . I also have separated head stamps as well but wanted to test the mixed brass .

I just so happen to be going and testing those thin walls tomorrow morning using 230gr lead cast RN bullets .

 

[Real Gun]

Unclenick - I used to pitch all .45 Auto brass with an R-P headstamp for the same reason. It had necks on the thin end of SAAMI tolerance and they seemed to work harden quickly to the point of unusability. After I got my first Dillon press, though, the problem went away. Apparently the Dillon sizing die in my Square Deal is the pistol equivalent of a small base rifle die.

Remington uses 80:20 low brass allow, instead of 70:30 cartridge brass, like Winchester and Starline use, but Federal uses the same low brass alloy and doesn't exhibit this problem. So I think it's an artifact of how they space annealings throughout the drawing process in forming the brass.

Toss it or get a Dillon sizing die is all I can suggest (but call Dillon first to make sure what I said about my .45 Auto die applies to their .38/.357 sizing die, too).

Based upon the good input here, I have realized that wall thickness is less of a factor if a sized case still has an ID less than the expander. I believe the answer may be in the elasticity differences, because the expander would otherwise be the equalizer. In other words, resistance to the expander could result in some spring back when withdrawn, but not in the case of soft Remingtons. That doesn't change that some brass, identifiable by headstamp, is less satisfactory and would best be segregated, if retained at all.

Yea Dillon, but what exactly is it about that die that makes it special? If it can present a tighter case to the expander, allowing a bit more spring back, that could be the missing factor.

 

[Real Gun]

Quotes from T. O'Heir

+P brass is exactly the same as any other brass. It's head stamped +P so the factory doesn't mix 'em with standard pressure ammo.

Maybe, but could we expect that standards are more rigorous for +p brass, which otherwise could have some hazard associated.

Remington brass is the same as other brands too.

I am not following how we would know this.

All manufacturers make their brass to SAAMI specs.

I expect there would be a tolerance range for all of it.

If you're having issues it's because the sizer die isn't set up correctly.

Setting up a sizer is not exactly a science. I think I have that conquered.

You can forget about crimping altogether if you're not loading for a lever action rifle.

I do have a rifle that takes 38/357 and with which I intend to share side arm ammo.

Revolvers don't need a crimp.

Sorry, but I operate under the assumption that crimp grooves are there for a reason and that the swaged bullets in question without a groove are soft enough for a nice roll crimp to mechanically retain the bullet.

Cowboy loads are just target loads. No crimp for them either.

But there isn't a good reason to avoid crimping.

 

[Doc Hoy]

Almost any time I load .45LC

with R-P brass using a .454 bullet, it won't fit in my revolvers. Works okay in two lever actions. Any other brass is fine with the .454 bullet.

 

[Real Gun]

with R-P brass using a .454 bullet, it won't fit in my revolvers. Works okay in two lever actions. Any other brass is fine with the .454 bullet.

I wonder if that means your bullet is being swaged by the thicker brass.

 

[Unclenick]

I don't think all Remington brass has the thin mouths, just some of it. Certainly my Remington .308 and .30-06 brass don't suffer from this issue, and they don't get springy, particularly, either.

The SAAMI standard for .45 Auto allows the case wall to be anywhere from .008–0.011" thick when a 0.451" bullet is used. My experience using my old Lyman carbide sizing die from back in the 80's was that I could reload a Remington case once or sometimes twice, after which it no longer sized down far enough in that die to grasp the bullet. It was a case of fast additional work-hardening.

 

[rg1]

Remington .38 Special brass is the only RP brass I've had problems with. My combo .38/357 sizing die will not size most RP 38 Special brass enough for good bullet tension. While still working I made a sizing die just for .38 Special that correctly sized 38 Special brass for good bullet tension. I later found out that if you have a 9MM sizing die it will size thin walled 38 Special brass enough for good tension. The 9MM die will only size about .002" less than .38. Size normally with your 38/357 sizer then run the thin brass into your 9MM sizer down just past where the bullet would stop. Then expand as normal. It'll give you good bullet tension in thin walled RP brass. Loose bullet tension in 38 Special will give large velocity swings plus also can cause blooper loads or a stuck bullet in the barrel. It's a well known fact that RP 38 Special brass has thin case walls and bullet tension issues. Doesn't apply to RP rifle cases or most other RP pistol cases. Some old 45 ACP Remington cases had issues but none today I'm aware of.

 

[TimSr]

I've never expereinced any special problems with RP .38 spl brass, but then I've never imagined mixing differnet cases for .38. Its not like 9mm, where you are sweeping piles off the floor. When I shoot revolver rounds I typically put the emties back into the same box, so my brass stays in lots, and I can record how many times it's been reloaded.

 

[Real Gun]

I've never expereinced any special problems with RP .38 spl brass, but then I've never imagined mixing differnet cases for .38. Its not like 9mm, where you are sweeping piles off the floor. When I shoot revolver rounds I typically put the emties back into the same box, so my brass stays in lots, and I can record how many times it's been reloaded

I don't treat handgun ammo, especially target stuff, like precision rifle. I don't shoot in high class target matches. I get range pickups all the time, so I deal with at least a half dozen or more head stamps. I have seen and culled a few split case mouths, but would not entertain the notion of exact tracking of times loaded, how it was loaded, what it was fired in, what batch, etc. All I know is that the R.P stuff felt different to reload, and placing a bullet to be seated caused concern when quite loose in those R.P cases.

 

[Doc Hoy]

Realgun

Don't think so.

When I compare .454 in R-P to .454 in almost any other brass, I can see the difference. The R-P case is actually expanded slightly by the larger bullet.

 

[Real Gun]

The R-P case is actually expanded slightly by the larger bullet.

When the other brass doesn't give way as easily, that's when I thought the bullet could be swaged, allowing it to fit in the gun, while the R.P cartridges would not.