I am really hacked off!

D

Doc Hoy

New member
I had a hankerin for a Spiller and Burr revolver. I don't really like the design, I just don't have one so I figured well maybe I can get one cheap on the Gunbroker.

Did the search and two pistols came up. One of the two was listed at $125.00, so I started reading the add. Then I realized the seller wanted thirty bucks to ship the thing parcel post. You can get a flat rate box at the post office and ship any black powder pistol in existence for between 9.00 and 13.00 priority mail.

I was not born yesterday and I know there are all kinds of reasons why it is okay to gouge the buyer's eyes out on shipping. I do understand the concept of Caveat emptor and that all aspects of the deal are agreed to at the point that the bid is made. I know that gas, packing materials and time are not free.

I just wish that folks would respect the buyer's intelligence and quote actual or at least reasonable shipping and if they want to make a little more on the pistol then increase the friggin price by twenty bucks. Don't hide the profit in the shipping cost and hope people won't notice.

Here is a new rule. I will never buy any pistol on Gunbroker, or any other online auction site for that matter, from any seller at any price if the shipping is over $20.00 domestic.

I didn't bid on the S&B. The seller can keep his blasted pistol.
 
I actually don't care what the cost of shipping is. When I decide how much I am willing to pay for any item I figure the delivered cost that I am going to pay and that is my maximum bid. If I am willing to pay $150 for an Item, and the seller is charging $50 for shipping then $100 is my maximum bid. If someone else has the same item for sale with free shipping $150 is my max bid. I have been buying things on Ebay for a long time and, for the most part, the buyers do figure this out and bid less for the items with higher shipping, to the point that it generally evens out.
 
As long as the "shipping costs" are listed up front it doesn't bother me. I'm only interested in total cost when determining if a purchase is worthwhile to me. I recently bought a digital scale on Ebay from China. It was a "buy-it-now" item for $1.88 with listed shipping costs as $15.98. I knew full well that even from China the cost of shipping was no where near $15.98. However, this very model was being sold by others for $20 to $24 with free shipping. You see, in the end I knew my lowest total cost was the item with the $15.98 shipping. It was advertised up front before I placed my bid so I knew what I was getting into.

I read "shipping" as "shipping and handling". Yes it could be considered excessive as perhaps you wouldn't charge as much for handling (box, wrapping, tape, gas to post office, time standing in line) but I can see how some feel their time, effort and trouble is justification. To each his own I say as long as we have the info upfront to make an informed decision.
 
I also bid on a BP revolver from a buyer who insisted on sending the pistol to an FFL. That means my bid was $25 less than if he would have been willing to send it to my door.
 
As long as the "shipping costs" are listed up front it doesn't bother me. I'm only interested in total cost when determining if a purchase is worthwhile to me. I recently bought a digital scale on Ebay from China. It was a "buy-it-now" item for $1.88 with listed shipping costs as $15.98. I knew full well that even from China the cost of shipping was no where near $15.98. However, this very model was being sold by others for $20 to $24 with free shipping. You see, in the end I knew my lowest total cost was the item with the $15.98 shipping.
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Some sellers do this as a way of paying Ebay or Gunbroker a lower commission.
 
Doc, I hear ya

I have never sold a firearm. But if I did, I might charge 50 bucks for shipping. And here's the reason:

I'm not gonna wrap it in newspaper and packing peanuts and toss it in a box. I am going to pack it very well. I worked at UPS for many years and I know what the package will face and I saw hundreds if not thousands of damaged packages, to say nothing of understanding why they were damaged. It would be sealed against water damage on the inside because the firearm would be in a plastic bag with desiccant inside. It would be packed in a new, not re-used fiberboard box and the firearm would be surrounded on all six sides by adequate padding, preferably solid foam. The firearm would not be able to move around inside the box. All external edges of the box and all seams would be covered by clear packing tape to prevent water seepage if it falls in a puddle. All shipping info would also be covered by clear packing tape to guard against becoming illegible due to water

I have received too many things that were damaged in shipment, and I know exactly why they were damaged, and I would not ship a firearm to my buyer in anything but a conscientious manner

Now that's me, granted. But that is how and why I would charge more than the flat rate you see on the USPS website- I will do a vastly superior job than the USPS "bare minimum" and will all but guarantee your smile when the package arrives. The firearm would also be as clean as a new whistle

All I'm saying is that it is possible that the higher shipping charge could be due to a seller who will not ship you a good handgun in crap packaging. There's no guarantee he'd do it, I agree 100% there. But food for thought
 
I hear ya Doc. It frosts my cookies too when someone insists on gouging me for shipping or other nonsense. I've passed on a few that "would ship to FFL only" or charged $30 shipping.

Won't say that I refuse to buy one under those circumstances - final price would be the determining factor; and, it'd have to be a real deal (steal?)

As far as packing goes, I buy & sell a lot of C&Bs (primarily buy) and always have sufficient packing material & flat rate boxes to recycle.

Oh, and by the way, when I sell one & ship it, I only charge actual shipping costs. No packaging and handling charge.

FM
 
Okay...I am all calmed down now.

Del said,

"When I decide how much I am willing to pay for any item I figure the delivered cost that I am going to pay and that is my maximum bid." Likewise Clem is interested only in the final price.

I am in 100% agreement with both of you. It is pefectly acceptable for the deal to come down to a matter of dollars and cents. Simple addition.

But if someone tells me he is going to ship something for thirty bucks I expect that thirty bucks to go for shipping or associated costs like the ad says. In this case the seller is sticking at least fifteen bucks in his pocket and the thirty bucks does not get the commensurate shipping service.

I don't buy the validity of reducing the price of something and jacking up the shipping as a way to reduce the stipend paid to GB or eBay. Some may do it but if they do they are their wasting time because the sellers costs are simply not that significant when you save fifteen or twenty dollars on a 125.00 item. Far better to present an honest picture to the marketplace.

This is one of those issues which is very easily dispatched much in the way Clem and Del described. "You pays your money and your gets your stuff."

But it is also like the loading stand that, when received did not even come close to matching the photo that was presented to sell it. A matter of principle.

I intend to impose my new rule on myself without exception.
 
I don't buy the validity of reducing the price of something and jacking up the shipping as a way to reduce the stipend paid to GB or eBay. Some may do it but if they do they are their wasting time because the sellers costs are simply not that significant when you save fifteen or twenty dollars on a 125.00 item. Far better to present an honest picture to the marketplace.
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In fact it is a dishonest way to do business, so I have no problem at all with you deciding not to deal with such a person. Still, If the deal is good enough I'm not going to let padding the shipping a bit scare me off.
 
Frankly, I don't care if they charge $100 for shipping and "handling" and state the amount clearly in the auctions. I always figure the S&H as part of the total I am willing to spend in my highest bid.

BUT, two problems.........

1) Not everyone is wise enough to factor in the shipping when determining their maximum bid, and so items are more likely to close at more than you are willing to bid when factoring in the S&H. This only becomes a problem when you decide it is something you really want.

2) The biggee. If the item has a return policy, the S&H is almost always non-refundable. So, while it's easy to say, "I don't care. I always factor the cost of S&H into my maximum bid", be advised that you will be out not only the return shipping, but also the inflated initial shipping to which you agreed in the first place. You may end up with just a net 50% refund in some such cases!
 
Doc,

I do most of my business mail-order, not just selling but people shipping items to me like custom ML parts, guns for repair, modern gunstocks, ect. I also get stuff shipped to me so shipping costs are very important to my business.

Just had a run-in yesterday with a potential supplier. $32 item, physical size 3/4" x 4.5" x 5/8" with a total mass less than 1 ounce. For all practical purposes, it can be sent USPS in a standard envelope for about $1.50 or in a small USPS flat-rate box for $4.95 .... but .... when I called to question the $18.79 shipping charge, the supplier stated, "I only ship UPS." My reply to that was, "Then I'll buy from someone else who has some functioning brain cells." A little more searching, I found the same item from another supplier for $28.95 and my option of $3.80 first class USPS or $4.95 USPS priority ... I ended up purchasing more than the one item and got myself a new buyer-friendly supplier.

Generally I ship USPS because I've had far less problems and way lower prices. One package going to Europe, the quotes were: UPS $391 delivery time 15-30 days; FedEx $295 15-30 days; USPS $68 6-12 days. UPS is out of their friggin mind on charges, I got a quote to send a longrifle to a client in south FL, $188 claiming it was; overlength fee, fuel surcharge fee, residential delivery fee and a bunch of other BS - I met the client half-way gaining a friend for life and found a great all-you-can-eat Mongolian buffet. My past experiences with UPS haven't always been good either, they destroyed one gun than fought me for over six months claiming it wasn't packed properly ... hard to pack it any better than in a wood box, they did try to remove the forklift tire tracks from it but didn't do that good enough either. In the end it still cost me a loss around $550 thanks to the additional costs including having to hire a lawyer to collect on the insurance I paid for.

I always try to find the cheapest or most effective method of shipping, sometimes it's better to pay the $15.95 or whatever it is now for the large flat-rate box and get it there in 3-5 days as opposed to the cheaper $11 parcel post that would take 2-3 weeks for delivery.

The only time I charge extra for the packaging is when it costs me extra for the packaging. Some of my stuff like my products (liquids/pastes/gels) require special packing according to the USPS reg's, I have to charge for what it cost me but I don't gouge the costs trying to make extra money on the sly - I don't like when people try sticking it to me and I'll be danged if I'm going to stick it to my clients. That's just bad business.
 
FL

I would buy stuff from you any day of the week. (Got any Spiller and Burrs for sale?)

Your approach toward shipping is a direct reflection of your integrity.

I can only assume that those who hide profit in their shipping charges would also hide other things about the transaction.

I will say again that the complaint that I raised in this thread has a very easy answer which was capably presented very early on by both Clem and Del.

I am sticking by my new rule but only for me. I am the last person in the world who would tell someone else how they should think.
 
If the shipping fees are listed I just factor that into the finial value. I know many try to recoup some of the e-bay, pay pal, gun pal fees.

The other side of the coin. I have a friend that has a 18 mile drive just to his mail box. A 50 mile drive to the PO.

Between the wife and I we ship or receive about three dozen boxes a week. 99% are sent usps flat rate or 1st class. USPS well send you free FR boxes and I re-cycle all the shipping material I receive.

I won't buy from people that well not honor my 03 FFL C&R and insist to ship to a 01FFL.
 
Doc,

Sorry, no S&B's in-stock. I see it as just treating people how I expect to be treated. If can save someone a coupld bucks on items or shipping, what's the big deal, others have done it for me and those are the people I go to first when I need something. Matter of fact, I've got to look up a guy from ebay I bought stuff from last year and see if he's got what I need now. I was hitting craigslist looking for a lathe, happened to email the same guy twice on two different machines a couple weeks apart. What he had wasn't what I was needing but he tried to help anyway, in couple weeks I'll be going do to his shop to buy some tooling - sure, it's nearly 50 miles out of my way but hey, the guy was nice enough to try to help, least I can do is give him a little business even if costs me a little more in time & fuel. Had guy call me about an engine I have on craigs, it's got a nasty rattle so I told him I'd open it up and see what it looks like before he drives 3 hours to come get it. He was totally shocked at that but I told him, "I'd rather haul it to the scrap yard than have you drive all that way for junk." I wasted enough in time and fuel running to look at "excellent - like new" machines only to get there and find something even the scrap yard would think twice about accepting. I finally got disgusted and bought a new one.

madcratebuilder,

Some excellent points. Being in the ML business, I don't need an FFL and I find there are more than a few suppliers who will not honor "dealer" perks/pricing simply because I don't have an FFL so I just won't buy from them. What makes me any less of a "dealer" just because I'm not dealing in FFL regulated items?

Credit card service fees: The majority of my clients would rather not pay by credit card so I don't build the "fees" into the item price, those who wish to pay with a CC are advised of my costs in accepting those payments and if they want to buy that way, it's fine with me as long as I'm not loosing money. Kinda hard to stay in business when you're selling an item priced at $12 when my cost on it is $10 then the CC payment company takes $1.78 in "fees". It's also not right to charge $14 for the item when 95% of the purchasers are not buying with a CC.

As for packing, I recycle too, I've yet to have a single client issue a complaint that they did not get "new" packing/padding materials. Yep, I'll stuff as much as possible in the flat-rate boxes too, no sense not getting the best value for the money.
 
Doc - stand firm with both hands on your pistol stocks! :o I agree with you 100 %. I' ve sold on eBay for years and I charge a fair and minimum shipping rate depending upon what the item is I'm selling is. It's a common ploy on there - start an item at .99 and make your profit in the shipping. I WILL NOT bid on any item that is priced out like that. If it is an "oversize" item, that's a different story - but, I am still going to charge the exact shipping rate and just a little extra to cover the packaging. And . . . . I package keeping the abuse by the post office or UPS in mind. I'm one of the first folks that will say that "what a person wants to charge is their business" . . . and I believe it that. You see it on the gun auction sites all the time - starting bid is more than what the blasted C & B pistol can be bought for new with a warranty from Cabelas or other supplier. It's like the seller doesn't even do any research to see what they can be bought for new. . . but . . . that is their business . . . and . . . we don't have to bid on them . . . "let 'em sit there forever". I'm to the point now that I basically look at the various gun auction sites for pure entertainment. However, when I see a "shipping charge" that is super inflated . . . to me . . . it speaks very highly of the type of person they are. I'm sorry . . . . I guess I just believe in doing things "on the square". Some of you might not agree with my view and that is all right - we're all different. As I said, it's their right and their business . . . I just won't do business with 'em. :)
 
DOC...Sure agree about shipping. In most cases it's a cheap attempt (they know what they're doing) to get a few extra bucks out of the buyer. I had a guy who wanted $35 to ship a ROA from CO to IA. Deal fell through for other reasons but the actual cost would have been $13 plus $5 for insurance. Got another one on shipping. Bought a ROA from a guy in IN and UPS made him ship it Next Day (just like modern firearms). We both raised H..... and he is fighting UPS :p for a refund.
 
Doc

I got a 13"x40" Enco and if the guy comes down to a reasonable price, I get a Southbend w/ 16' bed, needs a lot of work but the bed length offers a lot of heavy modification potential. :D

Speaking of the $0.99 then screw you on shipping, there's a couple auction on fee-bay like that now. $0.99 opening bid & $46.95 UPS shipping... the tooling being sold is worth, at best, $10 total and could fit in a $4.95 flat-rate box. :confused::confused:


BedBugBilly,

Depends on what the C&B is as to it's proper selling price, if it's been completely worked over and/or customized the price can be significantly higher ... but if it's an out of the box typical mass-production gun, I agree with you.
 
A long time ago, when I made my first bid on eBay, I bid on 5 1934 Ford wire wheels that I intended to put on a kit car I was working on that was supposed to look like it came from the 1930's. I bid $150 and won! THEN I found out they were in Seattle (it had been there in the eBay thing all along) and I was in New York. The bottom line: It cost almost $200 to ship them here by UPS. And after I got them I changed the plan for the car and didn't use them.

Anybody need 5 1934 Ford wire wheels, 4 are straight, one slightly off but fixable, no rust?
 
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