HS-6 and Magnum primers

N

NINEX19

New member
I was given about 3/4 pound of HS-6. I have never used this powder before and was looking up loads and seeing what it could do with what caliber. I did a few test loads of 38 Special, 357 Mag and 9mm. Using starting data, I was very disappointed with the results. The only one what was decent, and came close to matching published velocities, was a 90g XTP that I loaded. 38 Special was the worst. I felt fortunate to get the bullet out of the end of the gun and then I was left with very dirty gun and cases. I used only standard primers on all loads except for 357 Magnum.

I seem to have read somewhere in the recent past that HS-6 should only be used with magnum primers. Since my reloading books don't mention that (except for 357 Mag.), can someone verify this? Would using a magnum primer on the 38 Special and 9mm greatly improve results? Would that be safe in a 9mm? I am sure it is fine in the .38 Spl., I just have not had another opportunity to try it yet.

Thanks for the advice.
 
HS 6 in 38 special - my results with cast bullets

Mag primers wont help much. A powder charge in the maximum +P range will help. Plus, use jacketed bullet to build better pressure.
th_HS%206%20%2038%20spec_zpslxq1thst.jpg
[/URL][/IMG] 38 Special- Ash left from firing 5 rounds of HS-6 at 6.3 gr with 158 gr cast lswc. WSPM used. At 50 yards, firing 5 shot groups- 7 1/4" 6 3/4" and 4 3/4" using 2 hands.
 
Use HS-6 Extensively

I have extensive experience with HS-6. I actually like the stuff. But certain criteria must be met for it to run right. Here's what I know as personal gospel:

HS-6 likes heavy bullets. It needs something to "push against," if you will. This is true universally across all cartridges (45 ACP being a bit of an exception, but that is outside the scope of your post.).

With 357 Magnum, use magnum primers - always. 158 bullets strongly recommended. 125's will work, but they tend to be inconsistent. But whether using 125's or 158's, you gotta load it up really good. It definitely performs best at the top end of the load data. Always do a proper load work up, of course.

HS-6 finds a more comfortable home in 9mm. Due to the tight confines of the 9mm case, a magnum primer is not required. But I still recommend at least a 124gn bullet (147 prefered); and you still need to load it up really good.

As far as 38 Special goes: I stopped using HS-6 for it. Even with 158 Bullets, I couldn't get it to run clean to my satisfaction, until I was exceeding +p data, and I don't like doing that. And this is with magnum primers. The case is just too cavernous and pressures just too low for it to run right.

HS-6 likes pressure. When you load it up real good, it wakes up and does what it's supposed to do. If you create a recipe(s) that runs right, I'd be so bold as to say that when you're done with your 3/4 lb gift of HS-6, you'll go out to find some more to buy.
 
Everyone else said it right. I use hi-score for .38 and 9mm, hs-6 (and mag primers, 158 grain bullets, and a warm load) for .357.
 
HS-6 Recipes

Here's some HS-6 recipes that I've tried and worked well. All recipes are in compliance with Speer #14.

For 9mm:

124gn GDHP, 6.5 grains. Runs 1074 f/s through a 3.7" bbl (Kahr CW9). It's a good, clean burner. I've gone to the book max of 6.7gn, with no pressure signs, but backed it down just to have some head room. I don't like beating up my guns.

For 357 Mag:

125gn JHP, 11.0 grains. Runs 1342 f/s though a 3" bbl (Smith 686). Standard Deviation of 20.42 - which isn't great. And the SD goes up as the charge increases. This is an example of HS-6 preferring heavier bullets and is as good as it's going to get with a 125gn bullet. I used to run this for years at 11.2 grains (Speer max is 11.3gn), but after a lot of testing, I found that it behaves better at 11.0 through the short barrel. It's a good stout round. Not a velocity champ; but it still hauls the mail. Magnum primer, of course. Runs clean.

158gn JHP, 9.0 grains. Runs 1115 f/s through the same 3" bbl; with an awesome 7.93 SD - an example of how HS-6 likes heavy bullets. Now the Speer max is 9.7gn, and I've had it up to 9.4. But it runs so sweet at 9.0, I made it my keeper. It's not a velocity champ, but it can't be beat for consistency. You wanna make great use of your HS-6, this is it (with the proper load work up, of course).

158gn Hard Cast LSWC, 8.2 grains. This one is on the edge of starting to run sooty because it's a bit of a download for HS-6. But it has good pop for lead at 1091 f/s through the 3", and 1145 f/s through my 686 4". This is about as hot as you want to realistically run lead. Yet it still runs clean (barely). HS-6 runs cool, which is well suited for lead, btw.
 
hs6 is fantastic if you wanting high velocity 9mm rounds. My most accurate 9mm load to date is a 90gr XTP filled to capacity with hs6. my 9mm carbine loves a medium load of hs6 under 147 gr lead bullets. I have always used mag primers in my 9mm's, just keeps life a bit more simple. hs6 is one of my favorite powders, the only reason I don't use it more is because it's not as economical as Titegroup or HP38. I have not played with in 38 or 357, I use it exclusively for 9mm SD loads or heavy carbine loads. LOAD IT HOT!!!

I don't have my manual in front of me, but if I recall, HS6 beats every other powder in 9mm velocity from 90gr all the up to 130gr jacketed loads with only longshot and CFE nipping at it's heels. Its a fine powder for 9mm and makes some killer accurate loads especially in the sub 115gr. I load hs6 close to or at max with XXTP's and I swear I cant find a more accurate load. keep it hot, case capacity can be an issue with long bullets like sabres or coppers though. ignoring better judgment, I do load my own SD rounds, and they are all loaded with HS-6, I don't like it with it with lead unless shooting heavies. and I don't prefer it over TG when using heavy jacketed.
 
You must be doing something wrong. My guess is too little powder and no or not enough crimp. I crimp everything so that helps the pressure develop. I use HS6 for .380, 9mm and .40 cal.

For 9mm I use 115 grain Berrys or my own cast 105 grain out of a Lee mold.
 
I can only say that Nick nailed it down pretty well.

I have tried it in other calibers but for the most part I only really USE it in my 41, 44, and 45 Colt. FOr these using medium to heavy weights for caliber it is tha stuff. I tried it after reading Linebaugh's write up in my 45 Colt and other than AA-9 it is the most used powder I have. The heavier weights give it what is is looking for, that little bit of resistance to build and burn with.
 
I do not have a lot of experience with HS-6 yet, but what I have tried has been lousy so far.

Did attempt to work up a .357 load for my 7 1/2" Ruger BH using 158g JSP and CCI magnum primers. Tried 8.0, 8.5 and 9.0 grains with a tight crimp. ALL three loads were way below the estimated speeds from the Hodgdon on-line data, and all had an average deviation of 20 fps. The 9.0gr load only measured 1081 fps out of that fairly long barrel.

Worse than the poor speeds, these three loads were all by far the absolute worst for accuracy of any powder so far tested. 25 yard groups were more than double the size I generally get from powders like 700x, HS7, 473, Acc No.5, 2400 or 296. Accuracy from my M92 at 100 yards was fair, with the 8.0g and 8.5g loads on par with some of the others, but the 9.0 grain stunk in the rifle too.

I will eventually try in in the .40 and .44, but right now I'm not impressed.
 
Nick_C_S, skizzums, others, thanks for the great answers. I knew there must be A few "tricks" to getting this to run correctly. Using the above advice and my books, I'll rework ups some new loads and give it another go.
I agree about the 90 grain 9mm load I was using; it was ringing the gong almost before I pulled the trigger. It was fun, but a bit dirty and my velocities were more inconsistent than I like.
 
Matching published velocities is highly unlikely for anybody. They apply to the specific components and conditions on the day of the testing only. Accuracy is far more important anyway.
And you have to work up the load, not pick one and hope.
There's no .38 90 grain HS6 data on Hodgdon's site, but the rest of the weights do not use a magnum primer for that powder. However, Hodgdon, for some daft reason, uses magnum primers for Magnum named cartridges like the .357. Not being required for .38 or 9mm loads says you don't need 'em for .357 loads either.
Mind you, if you only have 3/4 of a pound it'll be gone by the time you have as load.
 
Matching published velocities is highly unlikely for anybody. They apply to the specific components and conditions on the day of the testing only. Accuracy is far more important anyway.
And you have to work up the load, not pick one and hope.
There's no .38 90 grain HS6 data on Hodgdon's site, but the rest of the weights do not use a magnum primer for that powder. However, Hodgdon, for some daft reason, uses magnum primers for Magnum named cartridges like the .357. Not being required for .38 or 9mm loads says you don't need 'em for .357 loads either.
Mind you, if you only have 3/4 of a pound it'll be gone by the time you have as load.
Click to expand...

Of course I was not trying to exactly match publish velocities, my point was that most were not even close; like @300-400 ft/sec off and always slower. No, this was not a weighing issue, nor other equipment failure. I am very meticulous. The .38 and .357 were out of a 5" revolver and 9mm was out of a 4.2" barrel, so odds are, they were not the same as the test guns. I know how to work up a load. I was using starting load data since I do not have any experience with it.

As far as the 90g XTP, I was not too clear I see in the OP. That was a 9mm load.

It takes you more than 3/4 lb of powder to find a load that works? .75 lbs=@5000 grains divided by @ 5.5 grains per load = 955 rounds... loosely. That is alot of "working up" :) . I anticipate to be able to find at least a caliber that I feel works well with it and develop a load long before it is gone. This will allow me to make a decision as to if I want to pursue using it and buying more or abandoning it altogether.

So considering case capacity for .357 Magnum and 9mm and the charge is almost exactly double in the .357 than the 9mm (using 125g for bullet weight comparison), I would tend to agree with you about not using the magnum primer. Burn rate charts would also lead me to using a non magnum primer. I was just trying to find a consensus as to what others are doing with this powder and if a mag. primer would improve results.

Here is an example of what I am seeing. Hornady 140g FTX in .357 Mag. Published data says min of 6.0 g to max of 7.7. My chronographed velocities out of an 18" RIFLE barrel, at 7.0g was average of 1054 ft/lbs. Hodgdon says at 7.7 grains I should be getting close to 1300 ft/sec out of a 10" barrel.
This was using a mag primer. Likewise, in the 9mm I got avg. 1161 ft/sec. on a 7.9 starting load for 90g XTP. Hodgdon says I should be closer to 1361.
.38 Special, I got to 8.4 grain (max +P charge) with a 110g Speer HP, and was only getting @ 850 ft/sec. Hodgdon says 1,268 ft/sec for that load. They were using a 7.7" barrel and I was using a 5", so that might account for some of it.

Based on what I have read here so far, it likes the heavy bullets with loaded up cases which none of my testing had. So I will retest using the advice above.
 
Currently I only use HS-6 for .45 Colt, but have tested it with the .44s as well. My goto load is 13.0g HS-6 under 255g SWC when I use this powder.

5 1/2" BH .45 Colt
13.0g HS-6, 255g SWC, CCI-300, 1116fps, 24 SD, 96 ES, 29 shots
13.0g HS-6, 255g SWC, CCI-350, 1139fps, 17 SD, 52 ES, 28 shots

Later I reran the standard primer test with 15 rounds and ES dropped to 62. Maybe it was warmer out ... I can't remember. I load either primer as my goal for this load is woods self defense, so long range accurate shooting (over 50Y) isn't a concern for me and average velocity is close enough between the two. I did mark the load as accurate for 25Y.
 
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I also have found HS-6 to work well only at max. charge weight realm.

My reloads were all 9mm though... so I can't comment on the various rimmed cartridges.
 
Wow. I've never heard this. I actually used HS6 with great results in 9mm, even with lead 115s. The velocities as chronographed were extraordinary. I never noticed anything unusual. For years, that powder, max loads, 115 xtp was what I kept for defense rounds, until I started buying factory for that purpose.

I never used it in anything else. I did consider it for use in my .357 recently, but used some solo 1500. The data for hs6 just didn't look right. I tried a box of them with AA7, wondering about that.
 
I have had good results with 9.5 grns of HS-6, a mag primer and a JHP 158 grn bullet. I reload for my Coonan 6" Classic. Python and Marlin. The Coonan has a 22 lb spring. No issues with the cycling process and it has a Ring of Fire that comes with it.
 
HS-6 for 357 Mag

I have had good results with 9.5 grns of HS-6, a mag primer and a JHP 158 grn bullet.
Click to expand...

I've done a lot of testing with 158 JHP / HS-6 / CCI 550 Mag primers.

After lots of range time with a chronograph, I finally settled on 9.0gns. Not the top of the load charts, but it runs real consistent with low Standard Deviations through my 686 w/ 3" bbl. 1115 f/s through the 3"; and right at 1200's doorstep through my 686 4" bbl.

A 158 pumped up pretty good runs HS-6 about as good as it's going to run in a revolver cartridge. It's best suited for 9x19, 40 S&W, and 10mm Auto.
 
38 special, 158 gr lead, hs-6. Standard primers worked poorly for me. Only loaded 6 or 12 of them. Magnum primers work much better.
The heaviest load I found published for 38+p, 158, was 7.3 gr hs-6, in Hodgdon #26. It doesn't specify lead or jacketed, and calls for magnum primers. Pressure is shown as 19,200 cup.
My favorite load with hs-6 is for 44 magnum, with a 240 gr cast bullet and a magnum primer. Pressure is probably right in the 20,000 cup range.
 
9mm is about the only thing I've had good results in. Everything else has leftover powder in the case.

Last week I thought I'd give it a try in my 327. I thought it would work well in there since they run very high pressures. But it was bad with that too. Still have unburned powder and accuracy was fair at best.

I think I'll just stick with 9mm and maybe try those 357 loads mentioned above.
 
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