HP-38 9mm not cycling reliably unless over max charge

M

Machineguntony

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I’m testing a new 9mm load using HP-38 with a 124 grain bullet.

According to the Hodgdon website, the max charge for this round is 4.4 grains. I started at the min and it wasn’t until at 4.4 grains, the action cycled ok. But even at 4.4 there was a FTE about 1 in 30 rounds.

At 4.5-4.6, the action cycles reliably.

I tested these rounds in a Sig M17, MP5, and Glock 19 and got the same results.

I haven’t had a chance to chrono the rounds yet.

Anyone have experience with this powder? Is my experience normal?
 
We use 3.9 grains of w231 with 124 grain bullets in 2 pcc's, a glock 19, glock 43, M&P9 FS, compact and a shield with no issues. No problems with cycling. Are you sure your scale is accurate?
 
Yes, scale is accurate. I double checked it by weighing the same charge against another scale. Both readings were the same.

W231 is the same as HP-38, IIRC?
 
We need more information. Data from the Hodgdon web site isn't for any 124-grain bullet, it's for the one they specify, loaded to the C.O.A.L. they specify. When I look it up on their web site, I only get one recipe. The bullet is described as "BERB HBRN TP" and the cartridge length is given as 1.150".

So what bullet are you loading, and what are you using as a cartridge overall length?

I am assuming that the bullet on the web site is a Berry's Bullets Hollow-Base, Round-Nose, Thick Plate bullet. The Berry's web site happens to list such a bullet, and they call for loading it to 1.150", so that may not be a coincidence. If you are loading a different bullet, and using a longer length, then you're not really using their data, and you're leaving more volume behind the bullet. That means lower pressure, which means lower velocity.
 
When I started with 9mm it was with HP-38 a Berry's 124gr RN flat base bullet and yes Hodgdon data states 3.9gr to 4.4gr for a Berry's HBRNTP bullet and it seems to me back then Berry's stated a length of 1.160" because that is what I started at for a length.

A starting load of 3.9gr with the Berry's 124gr. RN flat base at 1.160" would cycle my Taurus PT92C but would not lock the slide back on the final round. Increasing the powder charge to just 4.0gr resolved that as did the 3.9gr. loaded to 1.155"

For this loading with a Berry's 124gr bullet and HP-38 powder 4.2gr has become my standard loading as it is reliable, accurate, clean and manageable in that I can shoot it all day and not get fatigued. Also the 4.2 gr is what naturally drops from my Lee Auto Disk measure. My wife and I also shoot this load in 4 different guns.
 
Something is not right here, I load 4.3 grains of HP-38 under a 124 grain projectile. It works flawlessly on all 4 of my 9's.
 
Machineguntony said:
I’ll reduce the COAL and see what happens. I’m going to chrono the round tomorrow.
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You still haven't told us what bullet you are using, or what C.O.A.L. you are using. That particular load is specified for a Berry's Bullets hollow-base, round nose bullet, loaded to a C.O.A.L. of 1.150". As has been discussed in two other threads that are also running about cartridge length and seating depth (these are related), if you are using a different bullet or a different C.O.A.L. ... then you are not following the recipe. If you are using a different bullet AND a different C.O.A.L. you are in uncharted territory.

You can't really expect anyone to help you diagnose your load without providing the full parameters of your load.
 
max charges have been dropping for years. While Universal Clays works a bit better at slightly lower pressures in 9mm than 231/HP38 you should go for function even if you are a bit over book max in my opinion. I wouldn't go over 5 but if you are not cycling at 4.4 but are at 4.6 I think you'll be OK there or 4.7. Really you need a chronograph to help guide you. With thrown charges I find there is always a bit of variation from one to the next. Watch for pressure signs but I think your gun minimally cycling with 124 grain bullets is a good measure of your load power. Next time, try Universal Clays. I don't think you'll be disappointed your switched. It's cleaner and more consistent than 231 in 9mm pressure class loads. rc
 
Average Joe said:
Something is not right here, I load 4.3 grains of HP-38 under a 124 grain projectile. It works flawlessly on all 4 of my 9's.
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This is my most accurate load in my Beretta 92FS. 4.3gr HP-38 under Berry’s 124gr CPRN, C.O.L. 1.125”. My pistol cycles reliably at 3.9gr, but it’s a soft load.
However, my Kimber Micro 9 shoots the 3.9gr load as well as the Beretta shoots the 4.3gr load. I always have to remember, if the 92FS likes it, it’s a hot load in the Kimber.
Now that I’ve picked up 3 more 9mms I’ll have to rerun these loads from the bottom up. Sounds like a lot of loading, and a lot of fun ahead.
 
Get yourself a Lee Factory Crimp Die. It smooth out the bullet and gives a good crimp. If there is too little resistance the pistol would not cycle. By giving it a good crimp, will result in more resistance and proper cycling.
 
Other load data sources (Nosler is one) and older load data suggest you've got a few more tenths grains before max load. I've loaded up and shot 4.6gr with no issues, no pressure signs, but no chrony data. HP38/W231 is an excellent powder, but like RC, I'm warming up to Universal. :cool:

rc said:
max charges have been dropping for years. While Universal Clays works a bit better at slightly lower pressures in 9mm than 231/HP38 you should go for function even if you are a bit over book max in my opinion. I wouldn't go over 5 but if you are not cycling at 4.4 but are at 4.6 I think you'll be OK there or 4.7. Really you need a chronograph to help guide you. With thrown charges I find there is always a bit of variation from one to the next. Watch for pressure signs but I think your gun minimally cycling with 124 grain bullets is a good measure of your load power. Next time, try Universal Clays. I don't think you'll be disappointed your switched. It's cleaner and more consistent than 231 in 9mm pressure class loads. rc
Click to expand...
 
sparkyv said:
Other load data sources (Nosler is one) and older load data suggest you've got a few more tenths grains before max load.
Click to expand...
How do you know? Machineguntony still hasn't told us what bullet he's using or what his C.O.A.L. is. Without that information you can't possibly know if he's a few tenths under the max, at the max, or a few grains over the max.

All he has told us is that it's a 9mm and he's loading a 124 grain bullet. Did I misss something?
 
I figured out the problem.

The COAL was 1.15, 124 grains. Everything was according to the Hodgdon data.

I’m pretty sure the problem was that I spritzed the cases with a 99% alc and lanolin mix and them immediately loaded the rounds. Usually I do not lube my pistol cases, but because of tendinitis, I‘ve been lubing all my cases to make it easier to operate the press. Now I lay the cases on their side prior to spritzing so that the lube does not get inside the case.

When I ran the problem rounds through the LabRadar, they were indeed slower.

My loads since the initial loads have been great, with no problems. I shot 3500 9mm loads (with 4.4 grains of powder) today and had zero cycling, extraction, or feeding problems.
 
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