How would you handle this??

L

l98ster

New member
I live on the edge of an upscale suburban neighborhood in NY (Dutchess County). I have a neighbor on either side of me, each about 250 feet away. All of our backyards back up to 1000's of acres of public land. The law in my area states that you cannot discharge a firearm if you are closer than 500 feet from another dwelling.

I hear loud, frantic barking coming from the backyard. I look out the window, and see my neighbors dog in a faceoff with 2 coyotes. The dog and coyotes were about 25 feet from each other, with both coyotes standing next to each other. In my mind, if this fight goes down, my neighbors dog doesn't have a chance.

I quickly run to my safe and grab an AR I use for competition. I put 5 rounds in the mag, and head out to my back deck. I am about 75 yards from the coyotes. I have the coyotes in my sights, and told myself if they begin to surround the dog, im going to take them out. Luckily, the dog retreated into the house, and the coyotes jogged back into the woods. No shots were fired.

Here is the question. If I would have fired and killed the coyotes, what repercussions (if any) would I be facing. Keep in mind:
1) I was within 500 feet of the neighbors house
2) The neighbor is certainly an anti-gunner

Although I view this a classic defense situation, I fear this:
1) Neighbor calls cops because even though I saved his dog, he hates guns, and to him, I just shot a bullet into his yard.

2) I get arrested for discharging a firearm within 500 feet of a dwelling.

Am I being paranoid? Should I have called the police instead of taking out the rifle (even though the cops could have never gotten their in time)? Should I have avoided the situation completely?

Thoughts????
 
It’s really difficult to guess how local authorities might react, but the fact that your neighbor is anti-gun could be an issue. I suppose I would have called the neighbor first and asked if they needed your assistance. If they declined your offer then so be it and good luck to Fido.
 
BarryLee,

Thanks for the response. If the coyotes attacked, the dog would have been dead before I could dial the number. Its unfortunate that I would even have to second guess a situation like this in fear of ME getting in trouble. NY sucks!
 
In this situation, I would have walked away and said a prayer for the dog.

I would call the neighbor and let him/her know what I saw, but would not mention anything about being able to shoot the coyotes.

Change the perspective a little.

Neighbor comes home and finds dead coyotes in his/her yard. Calls police and they find out they have been shot. You call the neighbor and tell him/her you shot two coyote attacking her dog.

1. You are a gun nut and just want to kill things.

2. Snoopy dog looks OK, you just wanted to kill something and shot those two coyote in his/her backyard.

And if you had missed and shot the dog, what then?

Protect yourself and your property, but do not tangle with an anti-gun person. Just my .02 cents worth of opinion, YMMV.
 
I'm with Barry. In a rural setting, it would be a no-brainer in most cases to just shoot the yotes. However, your situation does not match that.

A quick call to the neighbor to tell him what u see would have been sufficient. Neighbor steps out back door, yotes take off, end of story, and you perhaps get a couple blue chips with the neighbor for saving Fido.

Had you shot, and broken the law, now you are putting yourself at the mercy of LE, if they get called and respond, over what? A dog? Not worth it.
 
BarryLee offers good advice. You can still talk to your neighbor and find out if he/she wants your a help to protect their pet.
 
BarryLee said:
I suppose I would have called the neighbor first and asked if they needed your assistance. If they declined your offer then so be it and good luck to Fido.
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This would be my course of action as well.

There was a recent TFL thread discussing the use of force against a domestic dog that threatens the actor's pet dog. The general consensus was that this is generally lawful, and post #20 contains an excerpt of NY state law that may apply to this very situation.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539439

That said, the use of potentially lethal force to protect someone else's property can be a sticky business, particularly if it is not clear whether the person has actually asked you to protect his/her property- hence my hesitation.

Re: the anti-gun angle, your neighbor might surprise you when presented with the fact that Fido could have been killed. (My experience is that a person's anti-gun sentiments can suddenly evaporate when the person, his/her loved ones, and his/her possessions are directly threatened. :rolleyes:)
 
Let the scenario play out without interfering.
If the dog was attacked, tell the neighbor what you saw, and then ask if they would have wanted you to interfere, then and in the future, AR included.
 
I guess it depends on local laws. I know in my county in South Carolina... i can shoot on my land as long as the round doesn't leave the property. That includes the land 20 yards from the neighbors house.

Had a neighbor call the police on me before...they told him sorry, but nothing he could do about it. I don't think he was happy.
 
While talking to your neighbor may be good I would take a slightly different approach. I would first contact an attorney for possible legal repercussions. I would also call your local sheriff or police for their advice. The sheriff or police may not be aware that coyotes are in your area. Remember that like other fur animals coyotes can carry rabies and could be considered a health risk in that respect alone. No law enforcement agency wants a ribid animal on the loose. Lets hope these coyotes don't have rabies.
 
Uncle Buck -
In this situation, I would have walked away and said a prayer for the dog.
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This ^.

I'd have taken a step further....if the dog had been killed/eaten/severely injured, I would have informed the owner that I could have done something to prevent it and save the dog, but chose not to, because "you just never know with all the anti-2nd folks around...I don't want to be arrested. So sorry."

If I know my neighbors are anti-2nd, I will allow them the opportunity to suffer the consequences of my inability to help because of the laws they helped push, and I've already let them know as much. Strangely enough, we are still on polite speaking terms.
 
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If I know the neighbor is anti...screw him! Let him fight off the totes with his iphone!

Seriously, anti's need to live in a world where guns NEVER protect them! I feel bad for the dog, but even if I shoot, I'm doing little to make the dog's life better...I mean, hey....he lives with the enemy as his master. Coyotes were just doing what Coyotes do and Darwin win protect your neighbor's dog better than you can.
 
Given that it was coyotes and that you are an adult human, you could have probably just yelled at them and they would have run off even from 75 yards. You could have taken you AR15 if you like and approached while yelling and that certainly would have done the trick, but there was likely no real reason to shoot unless they were already actually physically harming the neighbor's dog. Even then, as has been argued, that isn't your battle and it isn't likely to garner you any good favor from the neighbor if the neighbor truly does not like guns.

You don't have to shoot or shoot at coyotes for being threatening to get them to stop being threatening if you are and adult-sized human and that close to them. That would save you a LOT of potential legal hassles and still allow you to be a good neighbor.
 
l98ster said:
I live on the edge of an upscale suburban neighborhood in NY (Dutchess County). I have a neighbor on either side of me, each about 250 feet away. All of our backyards back up to 1000's of acres of public land. The law in my area states that you cannot discharge a firearm if you are closer than 500 feet from another dwelling.



I hear loud, frantic barking coming from the backyard. I look out the window, and see my neighbors dog in a faceoff with 2 coyotes. The dog and coyotes were about 25 feet from each other, with both coyotes standing next to each other. In my mind, if this fight goes down, my neighbors dog doesn't have a chance.



I quickly run to my safe and grab an AR I use for competition. I put 5 rounds in the mag, and head out to my back deck. I am about 75 yards from the coyotes. I have the coyotes in my sights, and told myself if they begin to surround the dog, im going to take them out. Luckily, the dog retreated into the house, and the coyotes jogged back into the woods. No shots were fired.



Here is the question. If I would have fired and killed the coyotes, what repercussions (if any) would I be facing. Keep in mind:

1) I was within 500 feet of the neighbors house

2) The neighbor is certainly an anti-gunner



Although I view this a classic defense situation, I fear this:

1) Neighbor calls cops because even though I saved his dog, he hates guns, and to him, I just shot a bullet into his yard.



2) I get arrested for discharging a firearm within 500 feet of a dwelling.



Am I being paranoid? Should I have called the police instead of taking out the rifle (even though the cops could have never gotten their in time)? Should I have avoided the situation completely?



Thoughts????
Click to expand...


I'd let them eat the dog... Not worth getting in a tangle with the law over a neighbors dog, especially a neighbor who already doesn't like guns... You could be looking at big legal issues. Not worth it.
 
I think your concern for the neighbor's dog makes you a pretty OK person :)

Glad the dog did the smart thing... and walked away
 
Hindsight sucks... but I've lived on the edge of plenty of SoCal canyons, and yotes, even in relatively urban areas are figurative scaredy-cats. Even in a pack, coyotes will run from an adult-sized human who is yelling and screaming at them. You should have just walked out there, waved your arms, and chased them off. Sure, take your gun, but don't you have a pistol closer than "in the safe"... no need to shoot unless you're attacked.

Food for thought... suppressed .308 with subsonic handloads?
 
I would let the guy know what almost happened to his dog. Then ask him if he would like you to save his dog next time with your (big bad) AR.... And go from there.

If it was my dog I would have shot them. But being someone elses that dosnt like guns I would have to let it end on its own and then see if the guy would change his mind about gun. Never mind if the dog didnt get killed just hurt, with the vet bills he would be paying might just change his mind about guns.
 
As far as the OP's legal situation if he had shot the coyotes, there's absolutely no way to meaningfully opine without thoroughly researching all relevant statutes, local ordinances and court decisions.
 
Tough situation. Where I live it would also be illegal to discharge a firearm, but if my cat which is an outdoor cat or my dog were in danger from a coyote or such, I would have no reservations about shooting to save its life. For this reason I keep my 10/22 handy in case I need to, it's quiet enough where the neighbors may think nothing of it. People in my neighborhood light off fireworks year round, which are louder than a .22lr out of a rifle.
 
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