How will 2cond generation Detective Special handle .38+P?

D

Doug.38PR

Moderator
DetectiveSpecial3.jpg


I've been told that I should never put .38+P through a detective special because it was never +P rated (at least 2cond generation issue).
However I have been told on this forum before that the Dick will handle an estimated 1000 rounds of +P.
As mentioned in another posting, I read in Chic Gaylords handgunner guide that he recommends the smaller snubbie revolvers like the Detective Special because they are heavy enough to handle hotter loads than standard .38 rounds, namely the 200 gr Super Police load:
Holdout revolvers having two inch barrels invariably shoot high above the point of aim. The western Super Police ammunition with a 200-rain bullet will drop in flight and compensate for this inaccuracy. These 200-grain bullets must be used only with the Detective Special and Chief Special, regular weight. The heavier bullet is also more effective in combat. This ammunition should not be used in any air-weight revolvers because it puts too much strain on the light guns.
A Secret Service man, who was assigned to a White House detail, came into my shop a few years ago. His gun was one of the best examples of adapting the weapon to special needs that I have ever seen. In a gunfight with a counterfeiting gang, before his present assignment, he had carried a snubnose .38 special. In the heat of the gun fight he discovered that his bullets were not penetrating the automobile, only a short distance away, from which is foe was returning fire. His partner, who was shooting the same ammunition from a regulation service revolver, drilled through the car and nailed the culprit.
Click to expand...
Handgunner's Guide by Chic Gaylord, pg. 24 (Emphasis added)

Interesting story. Though I understand modern air weights are stronger (some of them even shoot full magnums).
As a rule, I never shoot +P in my Detective Special even at the range or even carry in the gun for defense. If it came down to it, I would whip out some +P rounds from one of my Official Police and use it in the Detective Special if it came down to my life, but I'd rather not risk the gun popping in my face or even wearing it out.

Any thoughts on this?
 
The gun will be just fine. Current +P ammo is actually about the same pressure level as standard ammo was when that gun was new.

Regardless of barrel length faster loads will shoot low because they spend less time in the barrel during firing compared to slower loads and this effects the point of impact. I once worked up some 110 grain loads for a 4" S&W M10 that clocked 1405 FPS but hit 10-12" low at 15 yards making them useless unless the gun was sighted for this load specifically.
 
The DS is strong enough that you won't suffer catastrophic failure with +p loads. However, in my experience the pre-72 models have slightly softer metallurgy, which results in increased wear in several places. Thus, it's not a question of "will the gun handle it", it's more a question of how much maintenance you want to do!

One of my personal pre-72 examples has been shot extensively with +p rounds; compared to later guns, it shows increased endshake and frame battering. Both conditions can and do increase wear on the hand and bolt, which will eventually require me to fit new parts. Luckily, I'm able to do the job myself. :D

It is possible, over a long period of time, that the frame may stretch and require replacement - however, I've never encountered such a condition in a steel gun (the alloy Agents and Cobras being another matter.)

I therefore recommend to my customers that pre-72 "D" frames receive a limited amount of +p compared to later guns; to have the gun checked by a knowledgeable Colt 'smith every 3,000 rounds or so; and correct any deficiencies immediately.

You don't have to be afraid of them, just understand that each +p round will result in more wear than a standard pressure load, and maintain the gun appropriately.

Hope this helps.
 
More pragmatically.....

Ask yourself this question. Since I cannot buy another new one, what price am I willing to pay to buy another nice one so I can destroy this one with +P loads?

Simple question, seeing as nice 3rd gens are now going for around $500 and 1st and 2nd gens in nice to very nice condition are rapidly approaching a grand.

I guess if you have the money to blow on another one, go ahead and destroy the one you have. It just does not make much sense to me:rolleyes:
 
With all that said, I kind of thing I will stick to what I do. Use regular .38 Special Hydrashoks for defense, regular LRN or FMJ for practice and if I need extra punch, drop .38+P LSWHP in it. I don't want to tear up a nice gun. Leave occasional practice with +P for my OPs.:)
 
With all that said, I kind of thing I will stick to what I do. Use regular .38 Special Hydrashoks for defense, regular LRN or FMJ for practice and if I need extra punch, drop .38+P LSWHP in it. I don't want to tear up a nice gun. Leave occasional practice with +P for my OPs.:)
 
With all that said, I kind of thing I will stick to what I do. Use regular .38 Special Hydrashoks for defense, regular LRN or FMJ for practice and if I need extra punch, drop .38+P LSWHP in it. I don't want to tear up a nice gun. Leave occasional practice with +P for my OPs.:)
 
With all that said, I kind of thing I will stick to what I do. Use regular .38 Special Hydrashoks for defense, regular LRN or FMJ for practice and if I need extra punch, drop .38+P LSWHP in it. I don't want to tear up a nice gun. Leave occasional practice with +P for my OPs.:)
 

After hearing about the "+P" issue for many years, and going through it myself, I have to throw in my two-cents worth on the .38+P topic. Remember folks this is MY opinion, but THINK about what I say for a minute as it is an educated one. (Note: points listed in no particular order.)

1) Any well made handgun, IE S&W, Colt, Ruger, etc., chambered for .38 S&W Special cartridge WILL fire a LIMITED amount of .38 Special +P loads with no ill effects. (I have a CA Undercover, alloy frame, that's 23 years old and though I may have put less than 100 rounds of +P's through it in its life, it is just tight and fine and I routinely carry 158 grn LSWCHP +P's in it.)

2) A steady diet of +P's, assuming you could afford them, wont blow up the gun, they will accelerate wear IE "shoot loose". Have you ever witnessed a .38 revolver blowing up from using a +P load?

3) The difference between a standard .38 special and +P load, for combat purposes, is so close that you can practice with the same weight bullet in standard and carry the +P's. (this theory/practice did not work well with .38's and .357's however, due to a greater power difference between the two cartridges. It does work well with standards/+P's.)

4) The .38 S&W Special +P loading IS NOT A .357 Magnum. It IS a .38 Special with a little extra "juice" behind it. (Truth be know, from the older ammunition data that I've seen, the modern +P loads are about on par with the older standard loadings.)

Like I said, this is MY OPINION based upon my research and experience. If you doubt my conclusions, and you should, research the topic yourself...I did.

Happy New Year,
KG59
 
I'd leave your Detective Special alone and look at one of these (from the Rossi website) - new model. First regular production small frame (sub J-Frame) 6-shot .357 (.38 Sp) since the Detective Special - that I know of. Amazing the industry has had such a gap for so long. These are 2" with rubber Hogue type grips. Would make a perfect .38 Sp +P revolver that can still shoot .357s occasionally.

"The Rossi Models R461 in Blue Steel and R462 in Stainless Steel are snub-nosed revolvers in .357 Magnum long regarded as the perfect round for self defense.This little giant carries 6 rounds and is as reliable as the day is long. While they're built extra tough to handle all .357 Magnum cartridges, they will fire the popular .38 Special Standard and .38 Special +P rounds as well. Like all Rossi revolvers, both carry the Taurus Security System and our Lifetime Repair Policy."
 
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