HOW VALUABLE IS YOUR FREEDOM?

P

Paul Revere

New member
We look back on our lives and remember those days when we laughed at the idea, that one day we'd be faced with a government clearly attempting to remove our God given, Constitutionally protected freedoms. But today, we are faced with such a government.

We the people are being re-classed, not as upper, middle, or lower class citizens, but as those who agree with the socialist agenda and those who don't, those who believe in civilian disarmament and those who don't, those who believe in eliminating the "gun culture" and those who believe in preserving the right to keep and bear arms.

It is obvious that many of you understand and agree that we are at a critical juncture in our history as free Americans. But to what extent are you willing go to keep these freedoms? Will you all sit idly by and watch these freedoms eroded and removed without a whimper?

Our forefathers knew what needed to be done to retain their freedom. They saw the writing on the wall, and fought and died for it. They joined with their Countrymen and prevented oppression. Are you ready to do that too?
 
Paul, you are right on the money!

I should have read your post before starting a new thread under "What ever happened to...Read this". EVERYBODY GO THERE, and read what happened to our Founding Fathers during and after they signed our Declaration of Independance.

The time may be comming when we either continue our silence and hand over our firearms, either one at a time or all together, or stand up for our American Rights and take the consequences for our beliefs.

Whom among us will be the ones to fight for our Inaleinable Rights at all costs. And who will survive, either outspoken and victorious or silent and subdued, and reflect someday, saying "I am thankful that we (they) endured to get us to where we are today."

Thomas Jefferson
Benjamin Franklin
George Washington
Patrick Henry
John Hancock
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MY NAME
YOUR NAME

Can you pick out the wackos, patriots, libertarians or radical thinkers. Our
country was based on individual freedoms. WE CANNOT WEAKEN.

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2

[This message has been edited by BigFang (edited June 30, 1999).]
 
Suggesting? Pick up your American history textbook and re-read it. And while you're at it, re-read the Constitution.

My great grandfather and yours did not fight for our freedom so that our generation in turn could give it away! I am not suggesting we give it away. Period.

How would our Founding Fathers deal with the trouble in government today? Ask yourself that. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are looking over our shoulders, our children are looking up at us...let's not disappoint them. Isn't FREEDOM up to us now?
 
OK, I'm fairly well versed on my history and the Constitution so we're OK there.

"Isn't FREEDOM up to us now?"

You bet it is my friend. But let's take a walk down this road for a minute. Let's say - hypothetically - that someone were to "suggest" that this situation were to be handled by armed resistance. Let's compare, realisticly, the situation today and that of our Founding Fathers (FF heretofore).

NOW: massive civilian populations, massive Govt. resources and influences (communications, basic controls, *military grade law enforcement capabilities*).

THEN: very small population, VERY little Govt. resources, military was essentially evenely armed with the citizens).

Bear with me here. Today, if such a revolution were to rise up, how would it be *perceived* by the general population (liberal) and the media (liberal). "Crazed gunmen on the loose out to kill innocent people!!" False of course, but broadcasted never the less - and probably accepted. MOst people accept what they see and hear on TV, right? OK, back to the revolution. SO we have this **small** group of armed citizens who want to restore our rights - our Constitutional Rights. Any yes, it would be a small group and I'll explain why.

We my friend, you and I, are a MINORITY. We, who believe the Govt has gone too far for the wrong reasons (total disarmament) are a small minority of the population - real small. I have seen statistics about the number of *gun owners* in the USA, something like 80 million, some of them with multiple weapons. OK, so we have plenty of *guns*. But why then are there ONLY 3 million members of the NRA? Those of us who care deeply and UNDERSTAND what is happening and where the liberals are going with this - we are a very small group. The overwhelming majority of **gun owners** haven't a clue as to what is going on with legisaltion (i.e. Feinstein) as long as they can deer hunt or shoot armadillos or coyotes on their property.

So, our brave and determined freedom fighters march out with their guns (to where?) and are met by Local and Federal police carrying M4's, Benelli Riot shotguns, APC's, night vision equipment, tear gas, air support (black ones), bla bla bla. You get the point.

How will "we" look on World wide TV, a small group of honest citizens defending the COnstitution - like crazed gunmen (Waco, Ruby Ridge??).

The root of the problem is the small number of folks ready to even VOTE the way is really needed, let alone a peaceful march on the Capitol - it's about education. These same "sheeple" won't bat an eye as long as they can make their car and rent payments and have their big screen TV.

Most people do not understand what my gun *represents*. You and I know that it's NOT about guns, it's about freedom and rights.

So you see, our fight is not just against the Govt, it's against our own ignorant (not necessairly stupid) population.

Now, how do you fight that? THEY MUST BE EDUCATED. Not from the TV but from those like you and I. They must be taught that the 2nd is not just about "wood and metal". It is the anchor for the entire Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

DO not get me wrong, I'm not raining on your parade at all. I fight every day for these rights - within the system. If there comes a day when there is no other alternative I am prepared (mentally and hardware) to stand for those rights. But as any good tactitian would say, you must pick the battles you can win.

I'm certainly open to discussion on this but when someone says something like "we've got to do something, what are YOU going to do" - I ask them to step up, make a suggestion and then take the lead.

In liberty.
CMOS
 
Obviously going toe to toe would not be a viable way to go, right off the bat.

Wasn't cutting the Serb "propaganda" and communications one of the early goals in the recent conflict?
 
If you haven't read "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross, you should.

It presents an alternative to "toe to toe."

[This message has been edited by deanf (edited June 30, 1999).]
 
CMOS makes some very valid points. I forget the name of the movie, but I think it was STRAW DOGS, about a group of mercenaries hired to take over some small African country. One of their first objectives was to seize the radio and TV stations. It was considered mandatory.
Another point. Look at Afghanistan. They whipped the Russians. There is a people I respect. They don't take crap from anyone. Within the restrictions of their religious beleifs, they are truly free, without a Constitution. They are armed and willing to fight to the death. Period. Something to think about.
Paul B.
 
How valuable is my freedom? Let me begin my answer with a story. My parents fled communist opression in their homeland of Hungary in 1956. They left behind their families,their friends their homes and their country so that they could raise their children in a free country. I will truly be damned if I allow their sacrifice to be in vain. As CMOS says, for now we must fight within the system. We`ve got to give of our time and our money if we hope to keep our rights intact. Failing that, other means of resistance may become necessary. My father was a patriot and a freedom fighter. They fought and unfortunately, they lost. With his options gone he gathered up my mom and they fled their country. Where will we be able to run to if we lose?
 
Watch the printing date on those history books. The "revisionists" have had their filthy mitts on the books.
 
How valuable?

Push too much and you'll regret the morning you decided to.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
DC: Your post above may very well be prophetic. 2 minutes after posting it, the Independent Counsel expired. The beginning of the end?

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(!)
 
Cool down your jets. This thread was meant to do exactly what it did...get a reaction, open a discussion, and share ideas.

I never suggested an armed insurrection. But the instantaneous knee jerk reaction to this thread was one that assumed, as many patriots would, that the way to return our government to its rightful place is by the use of an armed revolution. An armed revolution against who? Those that have caused our Constitutional erosion are far behind the scenes, more concerned with how they will profit by creating a global financial monopoly, than by whether or not a few (billion) people die along the way.

Today we fight wars, not with arms, but with airwaves filled with little one's and zero's. Today, armies with weapons are an illustration of national or international political power, not necessarily how wars are won. They are a means to intimidate. Bloodshed is not necessary today to win a war against a tyrant who has seized power, or even those elitist's sitting calmly behind the scenes calling the shots.

It is correct to say that the most effective way to win the return of our freedom is with the use of education. But not by you or I talking with a few friends or neighbors. One must look at how the left wing has so successfully educated the masses of our fellow Americans and learn from that example, then go even further, and look into the future, stategically. Then, one must look at the very life line that feeds these vultures...money.

Make no mistake, so long as these vultures who are feeding upon our freedom have the use of the media, along with a never ending flow of our hard earned dollars, they will win this war. But we shouldn't be blinded by their accumulated power, because in fact, their jugular is exposed. They have begun to stick their preverbial necks out as their patience to create this global monopoly runs thin. And more and more Americans are beginning to smell the stench of their breath.

But we need to become united. Not just a few guys who can only devote their spare time to a cause, but large organizations of us, who already exist. This is where the education begins. Literally millions of Americans in these organizations when exposed to the direction and objectives of the vultures, will undoubtedly unite. But they must see their individual causes as a part of the entire picture presented, giving them reason to step outside of their traditionally focused objectives. Then, they need to clearly see the continuation of these traditional organizational roles as a weakness which is vulnerable for eventual extermination by the vultures.

Unite several million Americans, educate them NOT on how their individual interests will be effected if the vultures win, but how their entire existance, and those of their heirs, will be changed forever if they do not unite now. Draw the accurate and ugly picture for them and they WILL unite.

Then, with this new united front of awakened Americans rising up to be heard, the sound will be once more the roar of the lion reclaiming the carcass of America away from the vultures.
 
CMOS, of course you are right. We need to keep trying to work within the limits of the present system. No candidate would probably win an election with a one issue campaign, yet we as firearm owners and related industry shoud be able to sway the voting in some situations.

You asked "...what are you suggesting?". BREAK THE SILENCE! Too many firearm owners are not standing up for their rights to be protected. I realize that I am preaching to the choir on this board. But I am trying to fuel anybody that I can to spread the flames. There are rallys being promoted across the country, and some firearm owners are AGAINST this idea because "Our point will only be twisted anyway". In effect they are saying "I am keeping quiet, and you should too." We have been quiet for too long. The majority of the country has only heard from the anti-firearm side for too long. Now, we must be louder and more visible than they are if we want our message to be understood.

I feel that there may be a case to be made against the media in this country about the "fair reporting" issue. They rarely show firearms in "good" light. Always something violent, eg crime or war. Maybe it is also our fault that we don't promote the good side of our sports. Family time, teaching responsibility and safety, inexpensive, exercize, etc. Amazingly, the shooting sports have the lowest number of reported injuries of any sport activities. Less than golf, running and even fishing. And we use...GUNS!

One area of propaganda that should not be overlooked is our own millitary. If they truly believe in the Constitution and BOR, how many would disobey orders to fire on fellow Americans? The percentage may be small, but what if a soldier had to arrest his/her own family for not giving up their weapons? It makes me glad that I didn't join the millitary when I had the chance, even though I was recuited to be an engineer and not foot soldier.

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"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2
 
BigFang. When Reagan signed the bill that deregulated a bunch of industries, the media was one of the outfits that was deregulated. There was a law that forced them to give each side equal time. This was wiped out and they no longer have to do that. They've wanted that for a long time, and they got it.
If you refuse to sell your home to a black person, or Hispanic or whatever, you can be sued for discrimination. Right? If you have a business, and you refuse to wait on, or serve a minority, you can be sued. Look at Denny's. The big media outfits refuse to take ads from the NRA. Is this not the same form of discrimination? Why doesn't the NRA sue them? I can't believe they have not thought of this.
Is this a viable idea? Maybe a class action suit against the media for discriminating against gun owners? Any ideas?
Paul B.
 
Paul B. Yes the Class-action suit is a viable option, and it is being looked into by a group already. (Not directly by the NRA to my knowlege.) But the funding is going to be a major hurdle to overcome.

We as firearm owners are being unfairly persecuted by laws that are in direct contradiction to the basic principles set forth by our Constitution. Because we do own firearms, we as a group are being denied both our First and Second Amendment rights! Does this upset anybody else? When will we finally stand and say "ENOUGH! STOP THREATENING HONEST, LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS! PUNISH THE CRIMINALS!" Every time new laws are passed by Congress, we surrender a little more. Our white flag rises a little higher. The media sees this and says that the anti-firearm movement is getting stronger. If that is true, then we are getting WEAKER!

Can you reference the legal action of the deregulation of the media? I am interested in finding out more about what they are supposed to be doing.

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"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2
 
BigFang, exactly my point. ALL GUN *OWNERS* NEED TO SPEAK UP.

No more of this "I'd better keep quiet or they might take my guns" crap. They know what you have! They can get them if they want to.

But this will only happen if the citizens allow it to happen. Again, unfortunately the mass population is indeed ignorant of the rights they are losing every legislative session.

The previous points are well spoken - that we need to EDUCATE and get equil fair time on the "airwaves".

We will not be silent anymore.

Join NRA, GOA and vote!
CMOS
 
7-4-99 546 PM EDT My personal opinion is that people are coming on line to the various threats to our liberties:not just violations of our gun rights. The problem is that time is running out in the battle to educate the masses to the US_UN Govt. threat to our liberties. The NWO will have to act soon here in America before too many more people wake up. I believe Y2k will be the excuse to try to seize absolute power on the part of the NWO. The outcome could well be decided on a state by state basis or even on a regional basis such as a confederation of mountain states forming against Nwo. This whole scenario may sound crazy to somebut the plum for the NWO is America. Serbia was just the latest dress rehersal for the main event.
 
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