How to test varmint loads?

A

abrahamsmith

New member
I want to develop some light, fast, "explosive" loads for shooting small critters, and I was trying to think of a way to test how reliably my hand loads break up.

Obviously, for this type of shooting, we want bullets which break up violently when they hit anything heavier than air so that we have quick kills and down range safety.

here's the scheme I thought up:

place a tangerine or similar small, fleshy fruit on a post a couple feet of the ground. I'll then hang newspapers or posterboard a couple feet behind it to form a large "detector" so I can see where the bullet fragments go. This way, I can judge how reliably and at what velovities given bullets will expand when they encounter light resistence.

(This is the same idea as an array of detectors around a particle collision experiment, as is done at CERN, FermiLab, etc.)

I could vary the target to simulate different density animals or obstacles (I figure a tangerine is a decent approximation to a chipmunk or small squirrel.. )

thoughts?
 
hmm... not a bad idea...



The thing is though, that a thorough test of various loads might take 50 or 100 rounds, and I don't know that I could get that many chipmunks.... and if I did, there wouldn't be many left to shoot with my newly-perfected laods, eh?

:D
 
I have a old tattered issue of Guns & Ammo where Seigfried is testing .22 K Hornet loads on water soaked bundles of paper.

Essentially, he tightly bundled up newspaper into about the size of a praire dog (I prefer ground hog)- secured them with tape or something and let them soak for a few days in the water basin...

If you are going for a really destructive load like a 125 grain .308 or a 55 grain .240 Weatherby, then you might need bigger paper "varmints"...
 
I vote for live tests.

You always make sure of your backdrop, regardless of how far you think the bullet is going to travel. Just load up about 9-15 of a bullet with a certain amount of power. Go test them on paper. Whatever shoots the best, use those. You want them to be explosive? Use Hornady V-max or Speer TNT HP. I have had great results with both. I like the V-Max for squirrels. Completely destroys them. I like the little heavier 125 gr. Speet TNT HP for coyotes. Drops them great.

If you want to test the after effects, go to some known varmint holes, and set up your paper on the other side. Wait a few hours and return. How about that?
 
From personal experience...

Sierra Blitz-Kings are probably the most explosive. Nosler ballistic tips shoot well in most guns and are also very, very good. I shot a crow @ 120 yards with a factory 40 grain Hornady. Scatttered him over a 20 foot path.

I'd be more interested in what shoots best in my gun. In my experience, most any of the new factory rounds are more than adequate.

For more info, go to "Exploding Groundhogs" website. Sounds like your kinda place. www.egpworld.com
 
Here is how I did it.

When I first got my .308 I bought a box of Hornady 110gr. V-Max and just loaded them up. Their explosive performance made me love them on groudn squirrels right away. My dad was telling me that a 125 gr. bullet would probably perform better in th e.308. I saw a 500 pack of Speer 125gr. TNT HP on sale at Midway so I bought those too. I decided to load varrying amounts of Winchester 748 for each bullet and do an accuracy test. Here are my results.

110v125.jpg


I decided to load up the rest of the 110gr V-max with 48.7 grns of Winchester 748. I loaded up the Speer 125s with 47.6 grns. of Winchester 748.

Both bullets work great on squirrels and coyotes. I prefer to use the 110 V-Max on squirrels and the Speer 125s when I am calling coyotes. I have shot two coyotes with the 110 V-max and both did not go further than 5 yards after being shot. The Speer 125s have worked great on coyotes as well, many dieing on the spot or not traveling very far at all.

I think no matter what bullet you chose, as long as it is designed for varmints, it is going to work good. Once you do that, then do a quick test like I did and then let the fun begin.
 
Even a varmint desrves a quick, clean kill. Ethics is ethics, regardless of the "game".

So: The explosive 40-grain .22 bullets work well, but are more affected by wind--and if you try for those very-much-fun long-range shots, you could get just enough drift to graze and wound an animal.

The 50-grain to 55-grain bullets work very well, close up, and do well "way out there".

If "explosive" is of great importance, I sorta suggest sticking to grocery-store throw-away lemons and tangerines...Soda or beer cans full of water are quite impressive, as well.

:), Art
 
But testing the entire load, not just the bullet...

Granted -- bullets designed specifically for toasting varmints should perform as desired on the specified target.

However, I'm not just testing bullets, I'm testing loads. What if (as is sometimes the case) the most accurate load is at 2700fps while the hottest load is at 3300. I want to know if the bullet will still perform at that velocity.

Furthermore, I want to see if cheaper bullets are as effective as more expensive ones (.257 Hornady 75 grain: HP versus V-Max ... small price difference, but I'm curious just what the red tip does)
 
Red tip explodes!

What the V-Max does is pretty cool. First it improves performance a bit by having a tipped nose instead of a flat hollow point. Second, when the tip impacts a target, it wedges itself back into the hollowpoint it covers. In effect it starts the expansion process. What results is the bullet pretty much explodes on impact and makes a huge hole in the target. I am a big fan of the V-Max personally.
 
Art-

the "explosive" aspect isn't important to me from a "oooh! cool!" perspective, but from the perspective of safety... I want to be sure that my bullets will compeltely disintegrate upon hitting either the intended target or the brush/leaves/whatever around it...
 
El Rojo-

Yes, I understand what the red tip is *supposed* to do, but how much real effect does it have?


I'm not accusing Hornady of trying to gimmick or rip people off-- thay make great stuff and I use several of their products religiously, but I'd like to see how dramatic that effect is.

Anyone have experience comparing similar loads like those mentioned above?

Thoughts?
 
I am telling you.

I have seen the V-Max explode varmints. The most gruesome of all explosions occured on a poor innocent jack rabbit. I was shooting some squirrels out on the ranch. I noticed this jack rabbit about 30 yards from the truck standing in the shade of a big juniper bush, but figured I would let it live. I went a little further and shot some squirrels about 150 yards away. I went out to look at my kills and as I was walking back, I noticed the big jack still sitting around about a hundred yards away. I layed down in the green grass, got the crosshairs right in its lower back as it was facing away from me, and squeezed the trigger. I heard the bang from the gun, immediately followed by the distinctive "thump" of a bullet impacting flesh. I looked back through the scope and the rabbit was no where to be seen. I went back to the truck, backed back to where the rabbit was, and went to investigate.

I found the point of impact. There was a red circle of bloody red mist covering the grass in a 12" diameter. Exactly two strides to the right was 2/3 of the rabbit. His entire right leg was barely hanging onto the upper half of his torso. Seven full strides to the left of the impact mist was the right leg of the rabbit. Not just his lower leg, the entire leg. The rabbit was blown to bits. And this was a good full size jack rabbit. I was in awe.

After that, I have only shot one jack rabbit since. I actually feel bad watching them explode so violently. Squirrels, I hate em and I like to watch them explode. The Hornady V-Max in .308 works. I will vow for it.

The Speer TNT HP's work great for coyotes. I haven't really shot them much with squirrels. On Coyotes the Speers are great. Exit wounds on broad side shots are usually about 6-8" in diameter! No joke. I even gutted a coyote with them once. Shot him sort of low and it completely opened him up. His entire internal oragans spilled out on the ground. He was dead instantly.

As far as travel, just think about it. If these bullets cause that much damage, they is not going to be enough fragments left that are heavy enough to travel very far. I just thought of a good idea. Create a target. Maybe a milk jug with water. Place a blanket or some other object that is big enough, but more sturdy than paper on the other side. Shoot the jug and see if any pieces penetrate the blanket. Just because they penetrate paper doesn't mean much. I would try to use something a little tougher.
 
Abraham, what you're saying now is not what you asked in your first post. You opened up with the notion that "explosive" is important.

Now you talk about 2,700 ft/sec. 'Scuse me?

I do hope you're aware that faster is more explosive than slower. That being the case, load some near-max stuff and try it for group size. Just like the rest of us. If you're happy with the group size, why worry about slower? If you can't get a decent group at near max, you have more troubles than just velocity.

Explain to me the pragmatic difference between a 3/8" group and a 1/2" group. For shooting varmints since I first started shooting varmints, I haven't seen any useful difference. :)

This is not to say an academic exercise is neither fun nor educational, but it strikes me as excessive worrying about small potatoes. :D

All my love,

Uncle Art
 
Okay...

Let me restate my inquiry more simply:

What is a simple, reasonably realistic, reproducable (and hopefully inexpensive) way of testing the terminal ballistics of varmint loads?
 
If I were going to compare different bullets from one particular cartridges, I'd start with data-book maximum loadings. (Let's assume maybe a .22-250 or a Swift.)

I'd make a frame to allow holding maybe three sheets of targets. Spacing between the targets? Dunno. Maybe 6" to one foot. Material? The first or the first two would be cardboard, with the third a piece of 1/2" plywood.

I'd expect a .22"-diameter hole in the first target; maybe some signs of splatter on the second; and a raggedy hole in the plywood. If this didn't happen, I might well put the plywood first. The measure of "explosiveness" would be the amount/diameter of splatter or it could be the diameter of one of the bullet holes in the second or third target. It's pretty much a cut-and-try deal.

To compare the heavier bullets, I wouldn't be surprised if some thicknesses of wet paper in sequence would be needed in order to get visible evidence of quick disintegration.

Your idea of comparing results on tangerines (apples, lemons...) with some sort of surrounding "catchment" is fine, but you'll find more tangerine-splatter than bullet material. In fact, you'll have an aromatic area that's pretty drippy and sticky! :) The visuals will be impressive, though. :D

The various gun-rag articles testing cartridges indicate that the max-velocity load is commonly no more than 100 or so ft/sec faster than the max-accuracy load; they may well be with different powders.

My own experience is that my max-velocity loads are plenty accurate for varmints or other hunting. I tweak more with the bedding than with the load. Sorta like hot-rodding cars: I spent more time on the suspension than the engine and beat guys because I could actually use the horsepower I already had. :)

Art
 
This sounds awefully complicated.

Just know your backdrop and shoot. These bullets explode so much once they hit the earth, I doubt they are going to go far. Another idea if you want. Set up a target on a flat surface with a hill 100 yards or more in the background. I remember shooting plenty of times with match bullets or FMJ and seeing dust from where it grazed off the flat to slightly angled ground and then hit the hill up above the target. I bet you won't see any noticable hits on the hill with your varmint loads. To test the theory, shoot some heavy game loads or FMJ and see if they hit the hill behind you.
 
I think you are making this way to complicated. If you are shooting small varmits then you max range will be less than the effective range of the bullets. I have used Berger match bullets for years with tremendous success on prarie dogs. I am way more concerned about accuracy than effectiveness. With larger varmits like Coyotes and groundhogs bullet selection is a little more critical but not much. Accuracy always wins. Any Ballistic tip, v-max, FMJ is good in my opinion, as long as it is really accurate. Backdrop has never been a concern where I shoot.
 
You need a large batch of Ballistic Gelatin and an indoor range with chronograph to thoroughly assess the terminal ballistics of a specified load...

Other than that, you're doing what the rest of us do, load some up and shoot at your favorite varmint...

Try the newspaper thing if you are just comparing destructiveness from one bullet to another...

Consider the .17 Remington with a light bullet if you want sheer destruction without over penetration...
 
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