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How to Tell if Crown Damaged?
- Thread starter vitesse9
- Start date
Crown damage
I have never had a problem with crown damage on a revolver. You might notice dings in the end of the barrel if it was dropped or something. It would have to be a dent right on the edge of the bore, or damage that is enough to actually make the end of the bore out of round. Otherwise about the only way it could be damaged would be from rough cleaning, where the cleaning rod rubs against the end of the bore, working it in and out off center. (steel cleaning rod) You might examine it with a magnifier and some strong light. Look for a sharp edge where the lands and the grooves end at the muzzle. Otherwise your groups opening up might be from fouling, such as lead buildup in the bore.
I have never had a problem with crown damage on a revolver. You might notice dings in the end of the barrel if it was dropped or something. It would have to be a dent right on the edge of the bore, or damage that is enough to actually make the end of the bore out of round. Otherwise about the only way it could be damaged would be from rough cleaning, where the cleaning rod rubs against the end of the bore, working it in and out off center. (steel cleaning rod) You might examine it with a magnifier and some strong light. Look for a sharp edge where the lands and the grooves end at the muzzle. Otherwise your groups opening up might be from fouling, such as lead buildup in the bore.
Took a look at it. BTW, it's a Smith 686. There are 5 "ridges" symetrically place around the muzzle. I think these are where the lands a groves meet the crown. These "ridges" do look a bit rough. But, they look uniformly rough, almost like machine marks. On the other hand, the "ridges" seem to be different sizes: some of them are more pronounced than others. There are also a few nicks on the crown.
I have to admit to cleaning this gun incorrectly before I knew about crown damage. It was my first revolver and I had always cleaned my autos from the breach because someone told me it was better to do. But, when that was clearly impossible to do with a revolver, I just "scrubbed away" from the muzzle. Anyway, The gun endured about eight months of regular use and indifferent cleaning in this fashion with an aluminum cleaning rod. I remember it being a tack driver when I first got it. Now, it groups about as well as my Ruger.
Can anything be done? I guess it's still suitable for what I need it for: home defense, self-defense w/in 25 yards, and as a last resort against a charging wild hog. But, part of owning a fine firearm is getting the most out of it.
Any suggestions or opinions? Trade it? Find a good gunsmith? Live with it?
Live and learn . . .
I have to admit to cleaning this gun incorrectly before I knew about crown damage. It was my first revolver and I had always cleaned my autos from the breach because someone told me it was better to do. But, when that was clearly impossible to do with a revolver, I just "scrubbed away" from the muzzle. Anyway, The gun endured about eight months of regular use and indifferent cleaning in this fashion with an aluminum cleaning rod. I remember it being a tack driver when I first got it. Now, it groups about as well as my Ruger.
Can anything be done? I guess it's still suitable for what I need it for: home defense, self-defense w/in 25 yards, and as a last resort against a charging wild hog. But, part of owning a fine firearm is getting the most out of it.
Any suggestions or opinions? Trade it? Find a good gunsmith? Live with it?
Live and learn . . .
Bore
Well, an aluminum rod is less likely to damage a muzzle unless there is something embedded in it that would scratch steel. I hope you used brass brushes instead of steel. I only use steel in cases of very bad lead, and sparingly. Well, you should see the pattern of the lands and grooves where they meet the muzzle OK. The marks you see on the lands might be from the cutter used to mill out the bore. Are they concentric with the bore? And the grooves might have lengthwise marks from when they cut the grooves. But sometimes the bores are very smooth and shiny, depending on how the barrel is made. Sometimes they polish out the marks. I would have a gunsmith look at your barrel or someone who knows about Smiths and get a second opinion.
Otherwise you would have the barrel replaced, a gunsmith job. If the barrel is really bad, it costs alot less to replace than a gun. But there might be other problems that only someone examining the gun can spot. Like cylinder bore/barrel alignment and such. Good luck.
Well, an aluminum rod is less likely to damage a muzzle unless there is something embedded in it that would scratch steel. I hope you used brass brushes instead of steel. I only use steel in cases of very bad lead, and sparingly. Well, you should see the pattern of the lands and grooves where they meet the muzzle OK. The marks you see on the lands might be from the cutter used to mill out the bore. Are they concentric with the bore? And the grooves might have lengthwise marks from when they cut the grooves. But sometimes the bores are very smooth and shiny, depending on how the barrel is made. Sometimes they polish out the marks. I would have a gunsmith look at your barrel or someone who knows about Smiths and get a second opinion.
Otherwise you would have the barrel replaced, a gunsmith job. If the barrel is really bad, it costs alot less to replace than a gun. But there might be other problems that only someone examining the gun can spot. Like cylinder bore/barrel alignment and such. Good luck.
PS recrowning
If by some chance it is really just a damaged crown, and the damage does not extend back into the barrel alot, the gun can be recrowned. The simple method is a gunsmith gets a crown cutter, which is a 45 degree cutter that looks like a milling bit, and has a hole in the center to install a bore sized alignment plug. He inserts the plug into the muzzle till the cutting edges meet the end of the barrel and turns it to cut away material at the muzzle to the depth required to restore the crown. Usually not too much cutting is needed. Then he can take a 45 degree brass lapping tool and lap away any cutting marks and burrs left from the cutter. Brownells makes one that is used as a hand tool. I have used it to recut crowns on surplus rifles, with muzzle wear, successfully. Should not cost very much to do. Otherwise they would have to remove the barrel and recrown it on a lathe, which would cost more, I expect.
If by some chance it is really just a damaged crown, and the damage does not extend back into the barrel alot, the gun can be recrowned. The simple method is a gunsmith gets a crown cutter, which is a 45 degree cutter that looks like a milling bit, and has a hole in the center to install a bore sized alignment plug. He inserts the plug into the muzzle till the cutting edges meet the end of the barrel and turns it to cut away material at the muzzle to the depth required to restore the crown. Usually not too much cutting is needed. Then he can take a 45 degree brass lapping tool and lap away any cutting marks and burrs left from the cutter. Brownells makes one that is used as a hand tool. I have used it to recut crowns on surplus rifles, with muzzle wear, successfully. Should not cost very much to do. Otherwise they would have to remove the barrel and recrown it on a lathe, which would cost more, I expect.
Tom,
Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. I my first step will be a smith to look the entire gun over, as you mentioned. I'll see what the problems and options are at that point. Gun's fine as it, it's just not the tack-driver it used to be. Ahhhh . . . owning guns is an expensive hobby . . . .
Thanks again!
Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. I my first step will be a smith to look the entire gun over, as you mentioned. I'll see what the problems and options are at that point. Gun's fine as it, it's just not the tack-driver it used to be. Ahhhh . . . owning guns is an expensive hobby . . . .
Thanks again!
Tom Matiska
New member
Start with a clean crown. Examine the residue as you fire at the range. In a perfect world you will see equal spokes of residue on the crown from each of the grooves. If the pattern is uneven, the grooves are not venting gas equally. Uneven bullet base causes the same, so don't go to school on one or two shots.
Larger loads of slow burning powder(more muzzle blast) tend to exaggerate crown problems. Same gun may shoot well with modest loads of faster powder.
Larger loads of slow burning powder(more muzzle blast) tend to exaggerate crown problems. Same gun may shoot well with modest loads of faster powder.
Good groups = good crown?
Okay. I finally got her to the range and put 50 rounds through her. Just got home. The burn marks on the muzzle look very jagged and not very uniform. I shot .38s, btw. However, even with .38s, the gun was grouping really well. Probably .5 inch and under groups at 10 yards. I was actually rather amazed. This tells me that the crown is probably fine despite a few nicks. I bet I was doing a better job as a shooter too b/c I wasn't flinching at all with the pussycat .38s. I'm a pretty good about fighting the flinch, using a good trigger pull, proper breathing etc. But I alway end up neglecting these principles with the .357s.
Good groups = good crown?
Okay. I finally got her to the range and put 50 rounds through her. Just got home. The burn marks on the muzzle look very jagged and not very uniform. I shot .38s, btw. However, even with .38s, the gun was grouping really well. Probably .5 inch and under groups at 10 yards. I was actually rather amazed. This tells me that the crown is probably fine despite a few nicks. I bet I was doing a better job as a shooter too b/c I wasn't flinching at all with the pussycat .38s. I'm a pretty good about fighting the flinch, using a good trigger pull, proper breathing etc. But I alway end up neglecting these principles with the .357s.
Good groups = good crown?