How to do Rapid Fire?

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stdalire

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In Rapid Fire which way is better to manipulate the trigger: Full releasing the trigger every after shot or we steady the finger on the trigger.

Would appreciate your comments and introduction of new techniques.

Thanks,
 
Uh - you have to make sure your letting the trigger reset after each shot... thats it. I am not aware of any secret or specific technique on this one.
Fire as fast as you can reaquire a sight picture - NO FASTER. Whats the use of getting that following shot off so fast when you have yet to return it from recoil?

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
DON'T WASTE YOUR AMMO...
I can understand "double tapping..." But...
regardless of what you see in HOLLYWOOD movies...
Nothing is gained by the "SPRAY and PRAY" "MALPRACTICE" of shooting...
Your handgun is not an HK MP5 no matter how much you want it to be...
If you want to shoot fast look into a 1911 style RACE gun it is the closest thing to satisfying otherwise wasted ammo...



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SURE SHOT
 
James: My point here is how to manipulate our finger position on the trigger of a semi automatic pistol alone, which we can make a faster successive rate of firing. Shall we release our finger at a particular distance to the trigger or we just remain our finger in contact with the trigger as we squeeze it at every after shot.

Also, it was taught by some instructor that we must be aware of the recoil to be completed before a follow-up shot be done. But how can we determine if recoil is completed whilst the pistol is in battery.

Thanks
 
I think GEORGE, hit the hammer on the head with this one...
In practice...
For "rapid" "shot placement" I would think it is good to keep finger on trigger throughout shooting sequence...
Again it also depends on the capabilities of shooter and gun...
DAOs are not capable of shooting as smooth and fast as straight single action triggers...
Hence the advent of FULL BLOWN RACE GUNs; as used by the PROs...
These GUNs in the RIGHT HANDs do some AMAZING things... They not only shoot fast!!! But are extremely accurate as well...
Over the shelf, factory guns, can't do this...
In conclusion, to repeat what GEORGE said...
You have to wait for slide to return to forward position before another round can be fired... As fast as this happens... I would retain the same basic principles used when shooting any pistol... TAKE DEEP BREATHE (not to long) HOLD!
FRONTSIGHT FOCUS! SLACK OUT THE TRIGGER (not necessary for the 1911 SA) PAUSE! then SQUEEZE! "TAKE OUT THE PAUSE" for faster shooting... Won't be as accurate...

I QUALIFY "EXPERT" in the MIL using these principles... (USING "WEAVER GRIP" & STANCE)

HATE TO BRAG (YA RIGHT!!!)

I hope this helps!!!


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SURE SHOT


[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 20, 1999).]
 
P.S. DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE DEEP BREATHE WITH EACH SHOT... HOLD BREATHE UNTIL YOU COMPLETE SHOOTING SEQUENCE...



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SURE SHOT
 
One more thing...
It should take a fraction longer to re-asses frontsight focus; giving SLIDE "PLENTY" OF TIME to RETURN home...


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SURE SHOT


[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 21, 1999).]
 
James, you give me a lot to learn and making me one step ahead from being novice in this technique.

You're right it is a little bit slower for a DAOs to make follow-up shots as I observed with my 9MM compared to my SA .45

Thanks
 
Gee wiz,

Wait for the slide?

The Glock G18 shoots approx. 1200 rounds per minute in full auto.

I don't think any of us humans will be waiting for the slide to return before we get off the next shot.

On the other hand, the current record is 8 shots in one second from a modified S&W revolver. Now that's a fast trigger. And all of the shots were on target.

As for the DAO, if you hold your trigger finger stiff like a spring, you can fire a Glock pretty darn fast. The reason is because as the slide comes forward, it resets the trigger pushing it into your finger. Your finger, the spring, pushes against the trigger so as soon as it is reset, it is released. I have a friend who has mastered this technique. It raises eyebrows at the range when he demonstrates his skill.
 
When I say "WAIT" I am speaking figuratively of course!; we know that the SLIDE moves faster than HUMAN reaction time!!!

I also know that DAOs can be shot very fast! I too saw the 8 DAO shot world record on "AMERICAN SHOOTER". Again, the capabilities of the shooter are a major factor! By law of physics SAs will still shoot faster than traditional DAOs in the same hands...

I rarely, if ever, will shoot more than two rounds in a given burst. I don't think it takes a whole lot of DISCIPLINE to empty a MAG as fast as the trigger is squeezed...

If one wants to waste his/her ammo & $$$ by all means go to the range and squeeze away!!!
We still live in AMERICA and can enjoy this freedom!!!

Otherwise move to a CLASS 3 state and fullfill all those COMMANDO fantasies by buying a FULL AUTO... If you got the $$$...

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SURE SHOT


[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 20, 1999).]
 
Excellent advice all. With my Taurus PT99 I can rapid fire an entire clip in several seconds (haven't measured it) in a paper plate sized area.

Not real useful, IMO, but still fun every once in a while. It especially impresses the Mutt&Jeffs and other cannon fodder. Would be nicer to have a full auto :-) but they be expensive.

Had a home boy who brought a hi-point carbine in to the local gun store/range, complaining it wasn't shooting straight. One of the guys took him out to the range (while the home boys entourage stood outside the range (too cheap to buy ear protection)) and proceeded to rapid fire 10 shots into the 10 ring at 20 feet. Home boy shot it 5 times got one on the paper (outside the sillouette (sp?)). After hearing the rapid fire I looked over, this homey was breaking a lot of safety rules, but luckily he was only pointing the darn things at his friends.

(No wonder drive by-shootings always injure by-standers)

Homey then proceeded to bitch and moan about the d&*# rifle and wanted his f#($*(#$ money back.

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Peace through superior firepower...
Keith

If the 2nd is antiquated, what will happen to the rest.
"the right to keep and bear arms."


[This message has been edited by KAM_Indianapolis (edited October 20, 1999).]
 
Some of the better IPSC shooters I have talked to described the sensation of having to wait for a .45 ACP slide to shut before they could fire the next shot.

A drill I have heard of to practice speed and accuracy is a "Bill Drill" (I think developed by Bill Wilson). Set up an IPSC target at 7 yards, and using a timer attempt to get 6 shots in the A-zone in 2 seconds. Oh, yeah, that's from the holster. It doesn't count if you can't keep all 6 in the A-zone.

Relax, 2 seconds is a Master-class score. I don't think I can do it consistently myself.

A Bill Drill is to practice fast accurate shooting and getting you used to the rhythm of your handgun. (which grip works best, etc)

Now, this is going to sound freaky, but the top shooters say it is possible to shoot faster than your conscious mind can register the sight picture. Your unconscious mind can drive your gun to fantastic performance.

I tend to agree because there are some days on the range where I have fired 2 aimed BA-BAM hits that made an oblong hole in the target. Unlike the top dogs I cannot do this on demand.

I do know that some IPSC days I just shot so much better than I usually do with no tangible reason. One of these glory days for me was the first time I shot the American Handgunner Postal Match: the last stage was the first time I ever shot ALL A's.

I dunno how best to explain how this works. There are some good books out there like Brian Enos' "Beyond Fundamentals" and J. Michael Plaxco's book "Shooting From Within".

Edmund
 
I've seen footage of John Shaw doing some amazing shooting, and he teaches to let your trigger finger leave the trigger briefly. I've started experimenting with the technique, but haven't adopted it yet. The theory is that it prevents shortstroking the trigger, but that's not something I've ever had a problem with.

The most important thing is to shoot smooth and only as fast as you can make hits. Speed comes from shooting slowly and getting progressively faster. Eventually, you condition yourself to reacquire the front sight and recover the weapon to the same approximate position, which speeds your shot to shot time.

I was training with some friends, who are also in the military and we were concentrating on shooting slow and smooth. A guy I knew from work was in the next lane, and he popped off five fast rounds, at 7 yards, which impacted from the target's shoulder to groin areas. He then said, "that's how it's done," and walked off. We did the only thing we could do, we ignored him.

The rythym drill helps too. Load all your mags with 5 rounds. Begin firing, and concentrate on reacquiring your front sight.

As far as accuracy goes, you should be as accurate as possible. I figure if shots groups open up during the stress of a fight, then the more accurate you are in training, the less they will open up during a gunbattle. If my "friend" shot all 5 of his rounds into the outside edges of his target (not watching the front sight), I figure they could easily be complete misses in a gunfight. Most of us have read of multiple rounds being exchanged at 3 meters and no one getting hit. Shoot only as fast as you can make accurate hits.

SMOOTH IS FAST!

[This message has been edited by Chuck Ames (edited October 21, 1999).]
 
Hate to disagree with anyone, but releasing your finger from a SLACKLESS SA weapon like a 1911 may work, but from a DA/SA or DAO weapon it may not be the same...
The mere fact that the SLACK slips back into play when given the opportunity on DA/SAs & DAOs, means that it must be taken out again before the trigger is squeezed...
Though SLACK in a trigger has its pitfalls it is there as safety INSURANCE...

It is by all means a safety device!!!
The longer, harder pull of the DAOs & first shot DA/SAs (with its slack) is there to give the shooter the split second he/she may need to re-evaluate the situation...
Maybe they don't have too or should not shoot intended target...

Unfortunetly with SLACKLESS SAs like my FAV 1911s, once you SQUEEZE there is no turning back... Yes, they are easier to "double- tap", & I personally shoot more accurately with them...

But if ever in a real LIFE or DEATH situation with my 1911...
I better be sure of my intended target!!!
Or someone may be unnecessarily KILLED as a result...

JUST SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT...


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SURE SHOT


[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 22, 1999).]
 
I have found that ALWAYS following through for a quick second shot is the key for me.

My firing sequence - First a good position which, through practice, has become AUTOMATIC - my body just does it. I do it doing dry firing (after MAKING SURE THE WEAPON IS UNLOADED). I look at target, close eyes, draw, come up to my modified Weaver stance, open eyes - FRONT SIGHT IS ON THE TARGET.

Once I was able to do this, then follow -thru became easy.

So - on target, front sight clear target blurry, trigger squeeze, surpise break - BANG - recoil - front sight clear target blurry surprise break BANG recoil front sight clear target blurry trigger squeeze surprise break BANG recoil front sight --- you get the idea.

I keep my finger on the trigger as long as the front sight is on the target. I don't think I realese the trigger until I'm done.

It is really simple - body position and good stance FIRST, after you have that it's just front sight and surprise break and follow through after recoil. The follow through makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE. The last thing is never BANG recoil - it is ALWAYS recoil front sight.

Since I learned this from a Gunsite grad in 1984, I've gon from being unable to hit the target with a pistol to 6 awards Expert in the military, to scoring possibles - 250 out of a possible 250 - on my last 5 handgun qualifications - with a stock double-action 357 magnum revolver.

And I'm not a real good shooter - just consistent. It is all in the technique - which Cooper developed.



[This message has been edited by Alex (edited October 22, 1999).]
 
I was shooting with an IPSC master a few weeks ago at Knifegnugen (sticking my tongue out at Edmund since he could not be there. grin) And he was working with me on the Bill Drill. A key thing he taught me was to work on the rythym. Just drilling the A zone fast doesn't cut it. But shooting in a tapped rythym as quickly as I could continue hitting the A zone sized steel was the key. I slowed down an bit and got into a good even TAP..TAP..TAP..TAP..TAP pace. I started hitting consistantly at a quick pace. As I can begin to master a pace, then I can speed it up just a bit. But the key for me was getting the rythym.. not just firing as fast as I could at the target.



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Bubba
IDPA# A04739
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It is long been a principal of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully. - Jeff Cooper
 
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