How stable/unstable is BP to store or transport?

P

Pond James Pond

New member
BP is a bit of a mystery material to me, having never seen it in the flesh.

I recently read an excerpt from a BP shooting manual and in the handling/storage advice section it warned against naked flames, electric sparks but also percussive shocks.

I took that to mean dropping it or bumping it into stuff.

Now, smokeless is pretty inert if you carry it about but how much more "kid-glove" treatment does BP require?

Is it just a precaution or is it more like there is a real danger of blowing your feet off if you drop it from shoulder height?!
 
hammer test

As a kid....long time ago.... I would take all my 'fizzled' firecrackers and smack them with a hammer on a hard surface, to get them to explode. It worked every time. I am not sure what firecrackers are filled with, but think it may be BP.

I also wonder if a substitute would react the same way. I suspect not, but don't know.
 
"Truth bearing myths and myth bearing truths."

Well, this should be an interesting thread and you will find;
"Truth bearing myths and myth bearing truths."
BP is certainly more volatile that any current M/L replacement but if you follow some basic safety rules, you should never have a problems. I have been burned but never seriously hurt. ..... :confused:

1) Any open flame, ember or spark, should be avoided.
2) Any open container should be avoided.
3) It's been reported that a static spark will set it off. To date, I have never seen this and in fact, it usually take a "dirty" spark to set it off.
4) Bing or Google Black-Powder safety for more input.


Be Safe !!!
 
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Sparks

What the heck is a 'dirty' spark?
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A spark that carries debris, ember or hot particle. Example; Primers and priming powder. ... :)

"What's a clean spark?"
Static electricity or igniter. There are warning against pouring or storing BP in plastic containers and yet, it's done all the time. I do avid it because at my age, don't want to test it. ..... ;)

Be Safe !!!
 
BP is notorious for being dangerous for ever ! More than one death has been caused by a Civil War [1860s ! ] black powder igniting !
 
Dropping it or bumping it into stuff isn't going to do anything. Whacking it with a steel hammer might.
Get yourself a copy of Lyman's BP Handbook and Reloading Guide. Good read even if you never touch BP. Amazon or directly from Lyman.
Heard of static electricity setting BP off. Most likely not from rubbing the cat's back then handling BP though. Might have been early BP.
Firecrackers were filled with low grade BP.
 
BP is ignited by heat!...NOTHING ELSE!!!!! If it is subject to say lightning...well there is heat. A stun gun spark = no heat. So static electricity NO WAY enough heat. All Black Powder is now shipped in plastic jugs.

A very large compression/percussion will develope heat. A light strike or moderate hammer blow to a small amount of powder will not develope enough heat.

Flintlock or welding spark...actually contains a small ember of molten metal...LOTS of HEAT.

A match or open flame= lots of heat.

Keep it less than 570f degrees and you will be completely safe.

Firecrackers are Flash Powder....completely different!
 
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I'm pretty sure that BP can be set off by friction or impact.

Modern black powder is very very difficult to set off with electrical discharge.

See this fellows attempts with pictures:

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/electric_ignition/eignition.html

The reason is that modern black powder is glazed with graphite, which is electrically conductive. So the current flows easily over the surface of the granules with little resistance and so little heat is generated. Most static discharges don't last long enough to dump enough heat into the powder to get it to ignite.

In the above link, the fellow was making an electrically-ignited black powder firearm. To succeed, he ended up generating a lot more voltage over a much longer time than a usual spark generated by, say, walking across the floor and touching a doorknob. But he was ultimately able to get it to work.

Non-glazed black powder may be more susceptible to static discharge, I don't know.

Steve
 
Freedom475 and maillemaker speak the truth as I know it. As long as the BP has been kept dry it is stable for many years (unlike most subs). You aren't going to set it off by dropping a can from any heigth. It would be a hot ember: metal shaving, cigarette ash, etc that will set it off. Static, nope.
 
The flash powder used in firecrackers is not black powder. It typically contains pulverized aluminum or magnesium instead of charcoal. Magnesium burns with a brilliant white flame which gives it the name "flash powder", used in early photography before the flash bulb was invented.
The filament inside electric flash bulbs was made out of magnesium and all the electric current did was ignited it.
 
Keep black powder in its original container and it will likely never go off by accident. It ain't nitroglycerin.
I'd be more worried about the gasoline in your car's gas tank.
 
Black Powder

I have a pound can of Goex FFF that I know is over 40 years old.Original can,stored properly,is it safe? could I shoot this FFF in a .50 -.54 cal rifles ? advice please hdbiker
 
ABSOTIVELY

could I shoot this FFF in a .50 -.54 cal rifles ?
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You sure can and might be pleasantly surprised with the performance. By that, I'm suggesting that you could get equal performance by using less grains than FFg., thus conserving your powder. ..... ;)


Be Safe !!!
 
Yes, many shooters routinely switch from FFg to FFFg when going from heavy hunting loads to light target loads. I have even used FFFg in 12 gauge shotguns.
The rules on using FFg and FFFg are over simplified. You can use FFFg in large bore guns for patched round ball plinking loads, on the other hand, a .45 caliber rifle shooting a 500 grain paper patched bullet should use FFg, even though it's only a .45 caliber.

It's the same with smokeless powders, a .45 ACP needs a much faster burning powder than a .45-70 does, even though they are both .45 caliber guns.
 
Black powder should be stored in something like an old refrigerator where if it does ignite the door will be blown open. Smokeless powder burns much slower until it is tightly contained like in a shell. I don't consider it extremely dangerous if handled properly, but it is unpredictable. Even gasoline pumps have warnings about sparks and smoking because gasoline reacts similar to BP when ignited. They do coat the BP grains with a graphite type powder to reduce the chance of a spark ignition. It also helps to polish sharp edges off the grains.
 
I store my BP in a locked wooden chest in my shop building away from my house - dry, moisture free area. As far as age - I have several pounds of FFG DuPont that I still have that is from the early 60s when I purchased it - close to 50 years old. Works just fine.

Google Black Powder and Safe Handling - you should come up with some good safety rules - but above all - COMMON SENSE is the most important "safety" factor.

I well remember a fire that we responded to many years ago - a two story farm house out in the country with the traditional "balloon framing" - i.e. no fire stops between studs between floors - stud length is the full two story height. The danger of balloon framing is it creates a "chimney" if the fire gets in the stud spacing and can quickly spread to the second floor and attic. The fire stared on the first floor due to a wood stove. It was a real PIA as we had to do a lot of wall opening on the first floor to get to it and it spread to the second floor and the attic. We vented the roof and after fighting it for well over an hour, finally got everything knocked down and put out. THEN, the owner of the house walked up and said . . . "Gee, I forgot to tell you guys that I have five pounds of black powder stored up in the attic - could one of you get it so it doesn't get ruined?"

Needless to say . . . a number of us were ready to "do away" with the guy. We lucked out for sure as had that five pounds gone off, a number of us would have been injured or killed. You just never know . . . .

It's important to store BP correctly and if at all possible, not in your house. I reload BP cartridges - I reload in my basement. With BP, I bring it in, use it, and then take it back out to where I store it. The BP cartridges go with it and are stored in the locked wood chest as well.
 
I store my black powder in a 75-80 year old wooden dynamite box that was my grandfathers(He was an Army Engineer from 1916 to 1964, also took part in the expedition against Poncho Villa in 1916 and saw duty in France during WW1 in the AEF). It has danger:high explosives warnings all over it. If someone ignores it it is not my fault, hopefully all the warnings are not what lawyers refer to as an "attractive nuisance". All joking aside I thought it is a good storage container with appropriate warnings, a wooden box with non sparking brass hinges, limit chains, handles, hasp and screws. It will hold about 14 1 lb containers.
 
Most of the old time firecrackers were filled with potassium or mercury fulminate, which will definitely go off if struck (mercury fulminate was commonly used in primers around the 1930's.)

Black powder won't be set off by being struck (absent a spark) or by heat without a flame. It is not a chemical compound, it is a simple mixture and does not deteriorate with age. When old ammunition fails to fire, it is almost always the fault of the primer, not the black powder.

Jim
 
A number of years ago I came into a fairly large amount of black powder in varying sizes, from 4F to knuckle-sized grains originally intended for, I believe, muzzle loading cannons.

Most of it was, by my estimate, pre World War I, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if most of it wasn't much, much older.

All of it was in perfect condition. I used the smaller granulations in my muzzle loading rifle, made "fireworks" with some, and did some things with the rest that I probably shouldn't mention...

Ah, the stupidity of youth... :D
 
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