How should I determine headspace.

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Bytesniffer

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I was thinking
Take a trimmed sized
Case 7.62 2.008
Neck lightly crimped
Put bullet in case
And chamber , slowly
Until bullet is pushed on to
Lands and into case.
After removing round
then back off
A few thousand's.
Any reason why this
Wouldn't work ?
 
OK you're not talking about headspace there, you're referring to seating depth in reference to the rifling. I would start by seating long, then gradually seat deeper. I mark the projectile with a sharpie, and seat gradually deeper until the rifling leaves no smudges or marks on the sharpie colored portion.

Once I find that point, I usually seat at least .02 deeper, and that is quite close. Some rifles like a longer "jump" to the lands. Some like a very short distance, but beware that seating to close to the lands can increase pressure. Hence, why I'm at least .02 off.
 
How should I determine headspace.
I was thinking
Take a trimmed sized
Case 7.62 2.008
Neck lightly crimped
Put bullet in case
And chamber , slowly
Until bullet is pushed on to
Lands and into case.
After removing round
then back off
A few thousand's.
Any reason why this
Wouldn't work ?

As mentioned, you are not describing headspace but rather bullet seating depth or bullet off the lands. There is the:
LOCK-N-LOAD® OAL GAUGE STRAIGHT as one solution and there is also the RCBS Precision Mic as another option.
You can also use your chamber to seat a bullet as you mention but if I use my bolt to seat a bullet in my chamber then for example measure the C.O.A.L. it won't be consistent because it would only work for one bullet type and even within that type bullets vary tip to ogive as well as bullet length.

As to Headspace?
HEADSPACE
The distance from the face of the closed breech of a firearm to the surface in the chamber on which the cartridge case seats.
HEADSPACE GAGE
A device used in a firearm to determine the distance between the breech face and the chamber surface on which the cartridge seats. Also called Breeching Plug.
The above from our friends at SAAMI.

Ron
 
Firewrench044,
Doesn't the chamber
Space determine where the
Center of the shoulder for your
Cartridge stops the bullet
From traveling to far into the
Lands .ie rifling.
The rifle thats in for repair
Is chambered 7.62 and is
Longer then 308.
When my cartridge stops the
Bullet from traveling further
Into lands thats what I want to
Understand.
 

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How should I determine headspace.

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I was thinking
Take a trimmed sized
Case 7.62 2.008
Neck lightly crimped
Put bullet in case
And chamber , slowly
Until bullet is pushed on to
Lands and into case.
After removing round
then back off
A few thousand's.
Any reason why this
Wouldn't work ?

Any reason why this wouldn't work? I can think of one reason; nothing you have described has anything to do with head space. At best if I was guessing I would guess you are trying to determine the distance from the rifling to the bolt face. I believe that would have something to do with seating the bullet to the lands, or off the lands, or into the lands.

F. Guffey
 
I am the fan of shop skills. if you have mastered the .002" bump you should be able to master the .004" bump and the .006" bump and the .008" bump and the .010" pump.

I go beyond the 'bump the shoulder', fact is I find it most difficult but when sizing a case and controlling the length of the case from the shoulder of the case to the case head I sized the cases in thousandths. I form short chamber cases, I form long chamber cases.

And then there are methods a reloader could use when determining the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face in thousandths.

F. Guffey
 
But; before the bump the reloader must be able to determine the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. My favorite case is the case that requires .014" bump:confused: to get it to minimum length/full length sized, and I believe it important the reloader knows what a minimum length/full length sized case is.

F. Guffey
 
Bytesniffer,

A chamber's headspace is a measure of how much room it has for a cartridge case, and excess headspace is the amount of room the chamber has for a cartridge case to rattle back and forth in the chamber. The bullet is not involved at all. I think the fact some people use the word "head" to mean "bullet" has perhaps caused your confusion. The "head" in headspace refers to the pressure head formed by the brass at the breech end of the gun.
 
But; before the bump the reloader must be able to determine the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. My favorite case is the case that requires .014" bump to get it to minimum length/full length sized, and I believe it important the reloader knows what a minimum length/full length sized case is.

Latin comes to mind.
 
Headspace: From base of case against bolt face to 'Datum Line' on case shoulder.

Picture is worth 1,000 words,
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag58/JeepHammer1/DatumPoint_zps8j7sg7xk.jpg

Bullet seating depth is what you described.
Seating depth determines how far off the rifling the bullet sets.

Neck length is determined from 'Datum Line' to neck mouth, where the bullets fits into the case.
All a neck does is hold the bullet center with the bore, so neck length under 'Maximum' isn't a big deal.
 
With a properly sized case (Start with SAAMI for point of reference or 'Zero' point) your particular chamber could be +/- SAAMI specification.
Most chambers are not exact.

With a factory case that passes in a headspace gauge,
Simply oil the bolt face,
Insert a factory round in the chamber,
Use 'Plastic-Gauge' on the case head,
Carefully close, then open the bolt.

Plastic-gauge is a plastic fillies that that flattens out at a specific rate, and holds its shape so you can determine compression.
Available for cheap at any auto parts store...

The case headspace, plus what the plasti-gauge tells you will give you a very close reading of the actual headspace length of your chamber for a couple bucks.
 
To be more precise, you will need speciality tools.
A Datum Line adapter on your caliper to be precise.

Use the standard LE Wilson (or comparable) heads space go/nogo gauge to produce a brass sized a little long,
Keep bumping the shoulder back & measuring the brass with caliper/Datum Line adapter until the case fits into the chamber with no effort/extra pressure on the bolt when compared to an empty chamber.

At the point the shoulder is bumped back far enough the bolt closes with no ADDED resistance, you have found your particular headspace length.
 
The rifle thats in for repair
Is chambered 7.62 and is
Longer then 308.

What is the rifle, what is the problem, and are YOU the one doing
the repair? For yourself on your own rifle, or are you doing repairs
for someone else? Or is it a rifle that's "in for repair" at a gunsmith
or manufacturer?

Headspace has nothing to do with bullet seating depth, as several
people have mentioned. If the rifle has excess headspace, the only
sure fix (depending on the rifle) is a new barrel, adjust the barrel
(Savage) or "set back" the barrel and re-chamber.

ETA: On the remote chance that this is a Ishapore Enfield in
7.62 x 51---you can adjust headspace by replacing the bolt
head with a longer/shorter one.
 
Last edited:
Bvtesniffer --

In most rifles the ejector is in the bolt
it will put sideways tension on the cartridge
sometimes a little sometimes a lot
that tension can (not always ) cause you to get
a false reading
It is usually easy to remove the ejector
and eliminate that possible problem
( just don't let it fly across the room, put a rag
there and catch it )

Also some extractors do not hold the cartridge
tight against the bolt and the spring tension of the
ejector pushes the cartridge away from the bolt
again giving you a false reading
 
Headspace is a rifle manufacturing tolerance that has nothing to do with the cartridge.
The standard LE Wilson (or comparable) headspace go/no-go gauge is not a headspace gauge. Cartridges do not have headspace. The Wilson thingy is a case length gauge.
"...some extractors do not hold the cartridge tight against the bolt..." Isn't what the extractor is for.
"...an Ishapore Enfield..." Really expensive things to fix headspace on. Requires a handful of bolt heads(no numbers on 'em) and proper headspace gauges. Doesn't require a new barrel.
 
Something about one picture is worth... comes to mind.

Case%20and%20Headspace%20Gauges.png


I believe what the original poster had in mind as a case gauge of sorts and was concerned with bullet seating depth or how far to seat off the lands. Regardless, there are likely a dozen case gauge variations out there to be had, LE Wilson and Forrester come to mind, assorted seating gauges Hornady and RCBS off the top and finallt headspace gauges which as mentioned are a chamber gauge and have nothing to do with cartridges or cases. :)

Ron
 
Headspace is a chamber characteristic, and a gun still has a headspace value whether it is within any accepted tolerance or not. There is a standard headspace tolerance for each chambering for new guns, but there is also a field reject headspace tolerance limit that is outside the manufacturing tolerance and which armorers and gunsmiths use to decide when a barrel needs to be replaced or set back and rechambered. All this, however, is only necessary for remaining on good terms with commercial cartridge standards. Many a wildcatter has changed the headspace in his chamber to something nobody else in the world uses, but his chamber still has headspace. Anyone with headspace outside the manufacturing tolerances can load fire-formed cases to match it, as if it were a wildcat, and they still have headspace.

The case gauge determines if a case will fit inside a chamber with new-gun minimum tolerance headspace.

An indirect headspace gauge, like the case thimble of the RCBS Precision Mic, is making what is called an indirect or take-off measurement of the headspace of a chamber by examining what size a case fire-forms to inside the chamber. Due to brass spring-back, this is not a precise measurement. Like any indirect measurement made by measuring dimensional mirroring by an intermediary, the error in the intermediary has to be added to the measurement error. In this case the intermediary is the fire-formed case, which is typically a thousandth smaller than the chamber.
 
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