How safe does your armor make you?

S

Spectre

Staff Alumnus
Beginning in the last few years, police now commonly wear soft body armor (hereafter, SBA). With lowered prices, and improved (lighter, more comfortable) product, some savvy citizens have begun purchasing them, as well. How well will these actually work in protecting you from gunfire?

Last Sunday, I and a group of other firearm user fired a variety of side and longarms at (I believe) Level II SBA, which was mounted on a wood pillar 6" thick. (I invite other participants to add additional info or corrections.)

9mm (FMJ and assorted JHP): no penetration.
.40 (FMJ and assorted JHP): no penetration.
.45 ACP (FMJ/JHP): no penetration.
.45 Colt (lead): no penetration
.44 Mag (Federal CastCore): One bullet did not penetrate the vest, but did knock a hole aproximately 1 1/2" into the creosote-soaked wood. The other round penetrated.
.223 (FMJ): penetration through the vest and wood. Rounds did not penetrate through the second side of the vest.
.45-70 (300 gr JHP): penetration through the vest, the wood, and the other vest side.
12 GA (Buck): no penetration.
12 GA (3" slug): no penetration through vest, but the vest was knocked 2" deep into the wood. The diameter of the hole was aprox that of a marachino cherry jar.


[This message has been edited by Spectre (edited August 18, 2000).]
 
Considering that human torsos are somewhat softer than wood, I'd have to say that even a 147gr 9mm would hurt like hell and take you out of the fight for a while.

A better (albeit more expensive) test would be on sides of beef.
 
Well, if someone wants to volunteer any type of BA, I will wear it out! :D (I didn't get to test 7.62x39mm, or 7.62x51mm, or...)

[This message has been edited by Spectre (edited August 17, 2000).]
 
At what distance did you perform these tests?

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God, Guns and Guts made this country a great country!
 
If you were at Slinger's, you should have wandered down to my booth. I had .30-06 in a Garand (but I think I know what that would have done) .303 British in an Enfield and an SKS in 7.63x39. Missy and I were probably at the hospital by then.

As for the armor, I'd say it's probably better than a kick in the pants if you know you stand a good chance of getting shot, but Virden hasn't deteriorated to the point that I need one in the classroom yet. ;)
 
A few years ago a friend and I tested some "bullet-proof" glass Actually Lexan, I think) that another friend was going to use in a store on the east side of Houston. (Heavily hispanic, high crime). This was
1 1/4" stuff. results were as follows:
45ACP - stopped
380 FMJ - stopped
9mm - stopped
22LR from 18' barrel - full penetraion, 2nd
shot shattered test piece
38 special - stopped
38 Super - first shot shattered test piece
Since the majority of crimes in that area involved 22's and 38 Supers, he went back to the drawing board.


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Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
68-70
true story, a Union Gen. once said "Don't worry about those Rebs. They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..SPLAT.
 
The armor panels, attached to an upright cross-tie, were engaged at a range of ten to twelve feet. By the time testing was concluded the scraps looked like insulation after a tornado hit.
And that was only a 2.75" slug round.
============
He's a writer and arranger
And a young boy bearing arms.
-Music by Lee and Lifeson/Lyrics by Peart
 
The shooting was done at or under ~7 yards.
The vest was "old" which may have affected results...and I have been told that placing vests over hard objects will result in more shots getting thru.

My impressions were that I wouldn't want to be hit by a slug or hard cast revolver bullet because while the vest might stop the projectile the bullet would probably still drive the vest into the body creating a wound. A trauma plate would probably help.
 
My friends and I have played around with this quite a bit.

We have tested a IIIA vest with spectra and ceramics, similar to what the Army Rangers use, only better. Results were as follows.

9x18 stopped
.22LR stopped
5.45x39 stopped, except for one round near shoulder where armor is lighter.
5.56x45 stopped
7.62x39 stopped, but some denting to the wood backing.
7.62x51 stopped once, serious damage to wood, sucessive shots on that vest all penetrated.
.30-06 stopped, but with serious damage to the wood backing
7.62x54 stopped, but tips of ammo did stick through inside of vest on several shots, and one shot went clean through the front.
Mauser 8mm stopped, with serious damage to backing wood.
.50 BMG in one side, out the other and 2 feet into the berm(at least).

We have a friend that makes vests and when he gets occasional ones with asthetic defects, we get to blow the hell out of it.

As you can see, suprisingly it stopped most of the rounds fired at it. Despite this, the majority of 30 cal and up did so much tramatic damage to the wood backing, the wearer would have been hospitalized at the very least.

As an interesting test, we took the same vest and placed spectra wrapped trauma plates along the inside (similar to Roman lorica segmentata in placement) and we shot the same rounds. Most of the rounds did not do nearly as much damage to the backing, though certainly would have knocked any full grown man on his ass. The .50 cal, as expected, pretty much ignored the fact that there was something it it's path.

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
The vest used was a Second Chance Level II that I bought a little over twenty years ago. I was not presnet when most of the "testing" was being conducted but it was appearent that large, heavy bullets would be fatal. Not due to penetration but rather from the trauma inflicted from the impact itself. Obviously any bullet that pentrates defeats the vest as well.

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Gunslinger

I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
 
Anyone with an interest in soft body armor performance should see Second Chance's video, "Second Chance vs the Cop Killers". Granted, the source has an obvious bias, but it's still very informative.

Apparently the problem of "backface deformation" (rounds pushing the vest in without penetrating) isn't as serious as informal testing would suggest. The tape has interviews with cops who were able to keep fighting after hits from magnum (.357, .41) revolvers and even shotgun slugs.
 
Yeah, big bullets=big trauma. Those tiny trama plates they sell usually are not enough against anything serious. When we did our tests I had to make my own out of treated stainless steel, which I then put in spectra/kevlar trama plate pouches. That helped a lot, but still, if you get hit with .308 or larger, you WILL fall over, if not go flying a few feet.

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
in general, most sba is warranted only for hand guns and calibers below .44 mag. most rifle rounds will defeat the sba, and some shotgun also. hard plate, metal or ceramic can stop most common rounds, but weight and flexibility become major issues. .50 bmg generates approximately 10,000 lb/ft of energy and is capable of defeating 1/2'' hard steel plate at exended ranges ,1'' within 100 yds or so.
bullet resistant is more accurate than bullet proof, but i'd rather wear it than not.
bullet-proof glass is actually several 1/4 sheets laminated together.(it's difficult tocast really thick glass
and maintain optical clarity.)properly spec'ed, b/p glass will resist multiple .50 hits, althogh strikes on already damaged areas can drill through. real drawback is weight, as a desk top size peice can easily weigh 1000 lbs or more. Lexan used in this application must be properly spec'ed , or it will be ineffective.it generally has to be thicker, but is significantly lighter. also, must be changed annually or more often if exposed to sunlight(uv does bad things to it ). 0 [This message has been edited by cmore (edited August 17, 2000).]




[This message has been edited by cmore (edited August 17, 2000).]
 
Bullet proof glass is also layered like that to cut down on stress crack spreading.

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gunslinger:
The vest used was a Second Chance Level II that I bought a little over twenty years ago...[/quote]

That explains why it was able to stop one of the .44 Mag rounds. I was surprised that an old Level II would work that well, though I believe the wearer would have suffered broken bones, at the least.
 
Anyone ever tested those ceramic trauma plates? As most ceramic materials are brittle, do they shatter after the first round or two?
 
While I was in the academy one of our instructors was shot in the upper chest with a .357 magnum at near point blant range. His vest saved his life. He came to class, stripped off his shirt, and displayed his nasty abrasion/welt for all to see. There had been a few of my classmates who had indicated that they didn't think too much about vests prior to that day. There were none after it.
 
MFH, the ceramic is extremely hard and resistive, but it doesn't hold together well. So, those ceramic plates are wrapped in Spectra or Kevlar, which maintains the integrety of the ceramics. This kind of armor is the best there is, and does indeed take multiple hits successfully.

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
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