How much powder for .38 with hodgdon hi skor 700x?

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Devon226

Inactive
I'm new to reloading and I started out using 3.7 grains of this powder and they felt super light so I bumped it up to 5.5 grains and they felt perfect. I am just a little concerned if this is okay to continue doing before I make more of em. I think I remember reading somethin about how using too much powder can cause "leading" in the barrel. I am also using 158 grain rainier lead safe bullets. Any information about this would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Devon
 
Devon, Welcome to the forum!

Please buy at least a few good manuals - I recommend Lyman's 49th as a good start.

also, please visit the powder manufacturer's website for accurate charges for a powder that you are using.

For example :
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

5.5 grains of 700X is WAY over the max for 38 special and a 158 grain bullet. You are building hand grenades.
 
>I'm new to reloading and I started out using 3.7 grains of this powder and they felt super light so I bumped it up to 5.5 grains and they felt perfect.

Is this a joke? You started at 3.7gn, it felt light, so you upped the charge by 50% or so? Have you ever even heard of working up a load?
Going to ASSUME you are loading for .38 Special.
From Hornady, 4.0gn is max for .38 special and 4.3gn is +P max--and you tried 5.5gn...
Write a letter to the gun's manufacturer and thank them from the bottom of your heart that made such a strong gun.
 
Devon -

I've been loading 38 spl and 357 mag with 700-X powder for several years.

You are indeed way over the max load for 38 spl with 700-X powder.

5.5 grains puts you into 357 mag territory. This endangers your safety, as well as that of others around you.

Please follow published charges in any reputable loading manual or on the Hogdgon website.

You didn't mention what revolver you were using, but IF it is rated to handle + P loads, that should be your max load in a 38 spl. + P loads are listed in the Hogdgon website. You should first confirm that your revolver is rated for + P loads.

And if you are unsure about that, you should contact the manufacturer's customer service to find out.

Above all, be careful, and safety first -

Bayou
 
I did use the hodgdon site to look up the powder I have and I saw IMR 700X but I didn't see the hodgdon hi-skor 700x. The guy at the gun store which was an older guy and seemed to know what he was talking about told me to start at 3.7 grains and I remember seeing it somewhere online but I can't remember where.

The revolver I'm using is a chiappa rhino 200ds, which is a .357. And this is the only gun I'm reloading for so I didn't want to buy a whole manual since I figured I could just find the info online. Although, for the particular powder I have it does seem difficult to find data for.
 
Devon: thankfully you are using a 357... otherwise you were shooting Proof loads and playing Russian Roulette.

That said.. go back to 3.7 gr... get a manual.. like Lymans 49 and read up so you don't become a statistic.


SERIOUSLY.. you are endangering yourself and those in close proximity to you.
 
Well damn, I feel like a dumbass now lol. I didn't think it would be that dangerous since the first rounds felt so light
 
"I did use the hodgdon site to look up the powder I have and I saw IMR 700X but I didn't see the hodgdon hi-skor 700x."

Devon -

Hi-Skor 700-X is the same powder whether it's labelled "IMR" or "Hogdgon".

It's my understanding that Hogdgon recently bought the license to Hi-Skor 700-X
from IMR, so containers may now say Hogdgon Hi-Skor 700-X rather than IMR Hi-Skor 700-X. But they are the same powder.

I previously checked with Hogdgon about his.

Bayou
 
Thanks for the info guys, I really appreciate it. But can someone explain to me why it's so dangerous to do what I did when the rounds I made with 5.5 grains didn't feel anywhere as hot as .357 factory ammo. I know I was loading .38 special, but they felt like how .38 special should feel.

I'm sure it probably has somethin to do with the length of the case and pressure but I'm not completely sure.

Thanks,

Devon
 
Welcome Devon226.

Hopefully, we haven't beat up on you too hard. Albiet perhaps a bit harsh and unfiltered, everyone has your safety at heart.

Handloading can be very rewarding. And it's actually fairly easy to do - except mistakes can be very costly. Our hearts are in the right place - we want to load safely - first, and foremost.

700X under a 158 plated bullet is a good combination for general range shooting practice. I think you've done well there. But you'd be much better off keeping the charge weight around the 4 grain maximum.

If you want to make ammunition with little more punch, consider moving to a 357 magnum case and - more importantly - a slower, and more forgiving propellant that can drive them at higher velocity with less peak pressure.

Load safe.
 
No one is being down on you we a thinking of YOUR health and welfare (and the people around you)

What you have been doing is Dangerous and can hurt or kill you or anyone close to you .

Buy a good manual one you can go back to and check (look at as many times as needed ) . The internet is great but never use it as the last word .
Any load you find on the net check it with YOUR manual (if it is not in the book do not use it EVER)

Reloading is a lot of fun DONE RIGHT
 
Hi, Devon, and welcome.

There are several manuals on line that you can download. Alliant has one, Western Powders has one. Hodgdon, Horndady have good on line reloading guides as well. If you print out your load data, you won't have to "buy" a manual. Though, to be honest, a good manual will give you much more about reloading than just individual cartridge data, you'll find a wealth of reloading guidance. Some of which has already been provided here by the other posters.

Nick_CS alluded to it, but it may deserve a direct explanation. You are loading a fast powder using 700x. (I use it a lot for 38 spl but I load 2.8g for target loads). As a fast powder, it has a steep pressure curve-it develops high pressure very quickly. So it's not the most appropriate powder for getting maximum velocity out of your ammo. Its use is better for light target loads.

You should switch to a slower powder (W296 or Alliant 2400 are two of my favorites for full power .357 loads). With a slower powder, you can flatten the pressure curve and achieve much more velocity without creating a dangerously high pressure using a fast powder. You should also switch to .357 brass.

If you want to stick with .38 spl brass, then a medium burn rate pistol powder like Unique would work a lot better than 700x and give you higher velocities without creating an over pressure situation. There are a lot of other powders you could use, so check the reloading data to find one that shows a higher velocity for your bullet weight.

Please be safe and follow load recipes provided by the powder and bullet manufacturers.
 
But can someone explain to me why it's so dangerous to do what I did when the rounds I made with 5.5 grains didn't feel anywhere as hot as .357 factory ammo. I know I was loading .38 special, but they felt like how .38 special should feel.
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The feel of recoil is very subjective and is really a terrible way to judge the pressure of a load. You were pretty much at the max load for a 357 (max pressure but still less velocity than most factory rounds because that powder is not well suited to get max velocity from a 357) and that's where the danger lies. A loading manual is a great investment, but even without one, the Hodgedon site is free and it's way better to research the load before you load it.
 
Hard to be Nice on This One

The reason it is so dangerous for you to do what you said is that YOU ARE PLAYING WITH EXPLOSIVES AND YOU DO NOT HAVE A FREAKIN' CLUE!

And if you are shooting on a public range, or around any other person at all, you are also putting innocent people at risk.

STOP reloading NOW! STOP shooting anything you have reloaded! Buy Richard Lee's book Modern Reloading or the Lyman manual and READ IT!!! ALL OF IT!!!! Do this before you ever touch your reloading stuff again. If that is too much trouble for you, then you have absolutely no business to ever touch something that can go boom.

Yes, you can find safe reloading data on the internet, and you can download reloading recipes for specific components, but doing that because you are too cheap to buy a decent manual to LEARN about relaoding is NOT ACCEPTABLE. At this point, you do not even have a clue about WHY you should look up a safe recipe!

You do not know what you do not know, and it can kill you and others.
 
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someone explain to me why it's so dangerous to do what I did when the rounds I made with 5.5 grains didn't feel anywhere as hot as .357 factory ammo. I know I was loading .38 special, but they felt like how .38 special should feel.
Click to expand...


When did you last have your arm calibrated?

Seriously, recoil and peak chamber pressure have little to do with each other. Fast powders, like 700X tend to have higher peak chamber pressures with lower felt recoil than slow powders that don't spike as high in pressure, but maintain it longer. When you start loading .357 magnums, and you look in your manual (that will buy right away), you will see the measured chamber pressures for certain charges, and you will notice that the max load with 700X for .357 magnum has the same peak chamber pressure as the load for H110, even though the H110 achieves much higher velocity, (and with much more felt recoil.) If you load 700X to match the recoil of H110, you will be picking shrapnel out of your forehead before you ever get there.
 
Since 3.7 grains was mentioned as the starting load and it came from Hodgdon, I am guessing you have a 125 grain lead bullet with a flat tip on a round nose profile, like the one that went with the data. Other bullet shapes or compositions will need different loads. 38 Special is rated for 17,000 psi. From Hodgdon's data, the pressure from your 3.7 grain load of powder gives 14,300 psi, and from 4.2 grains gives 17,000 psi (the maximum). By using the ratio of the logarithm of the ratio of those two pressures to the logarithm of the ratio of those two powder charges, we can calculate a charge of 5.5 grains will have about 24,600 psi, which is well over 38 Special maximum. Fortunately for you, it was not over the 35,000 psi maximum for 357 magnum.

The velocities of those three charges, 3.7 grains, 4.2 grains, and 5.5 grains, will be 982 ft/s, 1,076 ft/s, and 1,307 fps from the 7.7" test barrel used by Hodgdon (I don't have your barrel length to estimate your velocity from). By comparison, the powder called CFE Pistol would reach the same 1,307 ft/s with a heavier 6.9 grain charge, but the peak pressure would only be 17,800 psi, which exceeds the 38 Special limit but not the 38 Special +P limit, meaning it would be safe in a 38 Special, though it would tend to beat up a lightweight 38 Special over time.

The CFE Pistol load gets the same velocity and in the same ballpark of recoil and feel with much lower pressure (17,800 psi), while loading 700X to that same feel gives you a much higher pressure (24,600 psi). So feel doesn't tell you what's safe.

Normal procedure is to work a starting load up in 2% steps while watching for pressure signs. This is because pressure grows exponentially as you increase powder charge. In other words, if you double powder charge the pressure more than doubles. How much more varies with the powder and its characteristic burn curves.
 
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