How much less violent is 158 grain .357 loads than 125 grain?

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boa2

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1)How much less violent are the 145 or 158 grain .357 magnum loads than the 110 or 125 grain .357 magnum loads? I have never fired any .357 magnum loads before?

2)What is the "Mildest" available .357 magnum loads? Are these pleasant enough to shoot for a beginner, shooting .357 rounds? Can you describe for me, what it would be like shooting these(Say, in a 4" K-frame or a 4" Ruger Security-Six(Or maybe a 2-3/4" Security-Six, "Snubbie"?))?
 
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General rule of thumb dealing with bullet weight and recoil is the heavier the bullet the heavier the recoil. So if I understood your question correctly, it would actually be the opposite, the lighter bullets would have less felt recoil.
 
I was referring to comparing the supposedly milder 145 or 158 grain .357 loads to the hotter 110 and 125 grain loads, which was my understanding, to be more violent-despite the lighter bullet weights?
 
Hi,
My perception of .357mag recoil from my 2.5" S&W M66 is this:

158 gr.=OUCH! What was I thinking! :eek:

145 gr.=Hey, that wasn't bad at all! I can live with it. :)

125 gr.= Are you sure these aren't .38's? :D

The 158's were from CCI, the 145's were Winchester silver tips, and the 125's were Remington Golden Sabres.

Personally, I like the 125's and the 145's best as far as recoil goes. For SD, I chose the 145gr. Win. silver tips. They seem to be a good middle of the road round and my gun likes them the best for accuracy.

Hope this helps,
Rob
 
The 125gr. Golden Sabers are loaded to 400fpe which is exactly the same as the old 125gr. "Medium Velocity" .357's that Remington used to make. They're basically a +P+ .38 Special. I used to purchase the old "Medium Velocity" .357's as practice fodder back when I carried Golden Sabers until the gunshop finally ran out of them.
 
I believe the 125-grain Golden Sabres are a "medium-velocity" load.

The full-bore 125-grain SJHPs as manufactured by Remington and Federal are different matter but mostly in terms or muzzle blast--they are loud and can be awfully hard on the weapon (particularly older K-frames).

Frankly, the size, weight and grips on the weapon have more to do with perceived recoil than round actually fired. Most loads are fairly easy to handle in a four-inch 686, GP100 or a King Cobra/Trooper III with Hogues or an equivalent grips, but most .357 rounds can be a real pain in Ti/Scan J-frame (which, frankly, should be limited to .38 Specials). Recoil is a little more noticable in a three-inch K-frame, but still a long way from being distracting. (I should point out I shoot the .357 Magnum a lot so my perception may be different from your's).

If you really want the "mildest" available load for your .357 then start out with 148-grain .38 Special LWCs (or 130-grain FMJs). If you want "real" .357s, you might try some of the various "Cowboy Loads" for the most part, they are really downloaded (e. g., Georgia Arms loads a 158-grain LRNFP to 800 fps--and sales them for $21/100)
 
"Cowboy" .357 loads?

1)Are the "Cowboy" loads actually called this, in the ammo catalogs?

2)Since the "Cowboy" loads are such slow speed(For a .357)is barrel leading any problem with these loads?

3)Then, the 125 grain Remington Golden Sabers are considerably less powerful than the full bore 110 or 125 grain .357 loads-but, is still much more violent, than the "Cowboy" loads? Is this correct?
 
1. Yes, they are called "Cowboy" loads in the ammo catalogs (see: http://www.georgia-arms.com/cowboy.htm)

2. I haven't shot them, but I wouldn't anticipate much of a barrel leading problem at velocity--particularly if hard cast bullets are used.

3. Yes, that is correct. The "Cowboy" loads are basically loaded to .38 Special specs in .357 brass. The 125-grain GS will be more "violent" than the "Cowboy" loads.
 
It really does depend entirely on the load, and the pressures & velocities (and recoil) differ from maker to maker.
158s, for example, are not all created the same.
You can't make a broad statement that holds true across the board in bullet weights.
Denis
 
Cowboy .357 loads?

1)The question would be, if the "Cowboy" .357 loads, have the bullets cast in hard cast bullets?

2)It would seem that using the "Cowboy" loads, would be great in a .357 revolver, to prevent the dreaded .38 Special chamber rings, since .357 brass is being used? It might be worth the extra expense to me, to obtain this benefit?

3)Thanks, for giving me this very informative information!

4)Maybe the most "Potent" load for me(As a beginner)to try, would be the 125 grain Golden Sabers-since I would rather shoot more of a "Bang" rather than a "Boomb" from my .357 Ruger Security-Six?
 
1) I believe Georgia Arms use hard-cast bullets, but you would have to call them (toll free) and ask. Even with soft lead swaged bullets, leading shouldn't be a problem at that velocity.

2) Yes, it would avoid the chamber rings (but you might be exagerrating the problem--the chamber rings become a problem when you do not clean your cylinder after shooting). As to cost versus benefits, that's up to you. You might want to give them just in order to make a good decision. FWIW, at $21/100, the Georgia Arms Cowboy loads are about as economical as you're going to get with the .357 Magnum.

4) If cost is an issue, the Golden Sabres are not the answer. They are a premium carry load--not plinking/practice ammo.
 
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Chamber rings a problem?

Chamber rings: Yes, I was primarily, refering to the chamber rings becoming a problem, during the cleaning of a revolver, when firing the shorter(.38 Specials)in a .357 cylinder!

Thanks, for the additional information!
 
Frankly, the size, weight and grips on the weapon have more to do with perceived recoil than round actually fired.

Yes ,I agree , especially when we are taking into account the same cartridge. For my 6" 686 with Hogue rubber grips the 158 gr magnum loads are not unpleasant at all. In fact I prefer to shoot them over the 125s . The 125 grain loads have more powder and a lot more muzzle blast.

Once fired a 4" Smith 19 with 125 magnum loads. The revolver had wood grips with deep checkering - it was very discomforting to say the least. Grips can make a big difference.

If you really want the "mildest" available load for your .357 then start out with 148-grain .38 Special LWCs

This is the best for a beginner. Minimal recoil and blast and usually very accurate. Should not cause one to develop the the flinch habit which usually takes place when a beginner starts out with full house magnum loads.
 
It is a truism that it all depends on bullet weight and velocity. A 180 gr. bullet pushed to 1,500 fps will loosen your fillings. A 125 gr. bullet at 1,000 fps will be very mild.

Nevertheless, perceived recoil and muzzle blast is important. I've fired Remington UMC 125 gr. jacketed soft points (1,600-1,650 fps) that had a very stiff recoil and muzzle blast, not to mention a noticeable sheet of orange flame from the front of the cylinder in daylight.

PMC 158 gr. jacketed soft points at 1,300 fps also had a strong push, but much less noise and flame.

Generally, heavy bullets with less velocity have less recoil than light bullets at high velocity.

The best solution is to reload and enjoy the .357's ability to shoot a variety of bullet weights and loads.

Chris
 
Yea, the Remington Golden Sabers (at 400fpe from a 4" barrel) are more powerful than the cowboy loads, but definately less powerful than the typical 125gr. full house factory .357's put out by makers like Remington, Winchester and Federal which run about 580fpe, and even less powerful than the hunting loads made by manufactors like Buffalo Bore and Cor-Bon that typically run around 750-850fpe with 158-180gr bullets.

I always equate the .357 Golden Sabers to shooting a 9mm.

The most powerful "factory" load in .357 that I know of is the Fiocchi 148gr. @ 1500fps for 720fpe.

I think the most powerful custom loaded (Buffalo Bore, ect.) .357's are in the 850fpe range.
 
My first centerfire revolver was a Ruger Security Six with six inch barrel that I bought for myself on my 21st birthday. (That was 22 years ago now. Yikes!) I bought a box of .38 Special wadcutters and a box of Federal 125 grain magnums. (That was the "wonder load" for self defense back then.) The wadcutters barely moved the gun when it fired. But those magnums really made me struggle to avoid flinching. The factory wood grips didn't help. And I probably didn't even have on hearing protection the first time I took it out to a pasture and fired a few rounds. After adding Hogue Grippers and some ear protection, it was much better. Even then, I would rate full blast 125 magnum loads as "violent." It's true that a full house 158 grain load will thump your palm harder but there will be less blast and muzzle flash.

I would start with wadcutters to get used to the feel of the gun. (After a few thousand dry firings at the TV screen.) If you reload, buy a box of hard lead "double ended wadcutters." You can push them to decent velocity and not lead the bore. I far prefer them for practice loads in all my magnums. I haven't used swaged lead hollow base wadcutters in years. Then move to lighter weight magnums but look for "medium velocity" or "mid-range" on the box. Look at listed velocities. If it is a 125 grain bullet and lists over 1400-1500 fps, you should probably look somewhere else. Medium velocity 158's will recoil more than lighter bullets but some people actually prefer a slower thump with less blast to the high velocity smack and roar from the lighter ones. Try several different ones and you will find something that is right for you.

Gregg
 
From minimum to maximum I suspect the following would be a good series of steps.

1. 148 Gr wadcutters .38 Special
2. 130 Gr. Jacketed round nose .38 Special
3. 158 Gr. Flat point lead .38 special
4. 158 Gr. Hollow point .38 Special +P
5. 125 Gr. Winchester Silver tip .357
6. 145 Gr. Winchester Silver tip .357
7. 158 Gr. Remington Flat Point .357

Start with number one and work your way up until you can draw from your carry holster and place 5 rounds into a 10 inch paper plate at 25 yards, in less than 5 seconds or 5 rounds into a 26 cm paper plate at 25 meters, depending on location and/or level of internatioalism. ;)

Geoff
Who notes the 145 Gr. Silver tip was good for bowling pins many moons ago, but expensive.
 
I've seen more than a few newbe's trying out their new .357 or .44 with full magnum rounds. It usually becomes an endurance test and seldom ends with satisfaction or confidence. You can't learn to shoot properly if your flinching from/ anticipating big recoil and muzzle blast. ( You have to hit it before you can kill it.) Don't be afraid ( or ashamed ) to shoot .38 special ammo out of your .357. In fact, all my 357's still see 3x more 38's than 357's. ( We're talking thousands of rounds in most of them.) Just clean them good between shots any don't worry about it. Of course, if you reload and are commited to using .357 cases only, you can reload .38 performance into any .357 case. Just keep your loads ( in either case) under 950 fps or so ( with plain, unchecked hard cast lead bullets) and you should have little leading issues.

p.s. Stay away from the real light 110 gr .357 loads in all but the larger frame guns. S&W has issued cautions about there extensive use in J&K frames.
 
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