How much harder
- Thread starter riverratt
- Start date
chris in va
New member
Do you water drop right after casting? Bullets gain hardness the longer they sit, so maybe cast, quench and cure a week or two first?
FrankenMauser
New member
You won't gain much, if anything. In my opinion, it wouldn't be worth the trouble.
Here's an article for some reading on the subject: LASC: Heat treating.
Don't go too far with any hardening attempts, though. It's all too common for flat-point hunting bullets to be cast with an alloy, or heat treated later, to achieve a BHN that just results in the nose shearing at impact and converting the bullet into a blunted conical.
Here's an article for some reading on the subject: LASC: Heat treating.
Don't go too far with any hardening attempts, though. It's all too common for flat-point hunting bullets to be cast with an alloy, or heat treated later, to achieve a BHN that just results in the nose shearing at impact and converting the bullet into a blunted conical.
You left out what your shooting them in as well as which bullets they are.
That said, take a look at these and see what you think,
Accurate 454-280C
These were loaded over some pretty decent Colt loads I use in my 7.5" Redhawk. THey shoot like a dream but you DO know you touched something off.
That said, take a look at these and see what you think,
Accurate 454-280C
These were loaded over some pretty decent Colt loads I use in my 7.5" Redhawk. THey shoot like a dream but you DO know you touched something off.
Chris, yes I water drop my bullets from the mold but from what I have read the heat required to PC will also anneal the lead. I only water drop because I find it easier to do.
Mike, I cast a 265gr RD bullet from NOE. And I shoot them out of a .44 mag in both a rifle (20" barrel) and a handgun (7 1/2" barrel).
I took a deer with these bullet this year with satisfactory results through green ribs but when I tested the bullet, through the deboned shoulder through saturated corrugated cardboard then into wet pack, I noticed that the damage wasn't as significant as previous test. When I recovered the bullets I found that they have essentially just became a rn. This was fired through the shoulder blade not the heavy part of the bone. Recovered bullets from previous test without the bone were in pristine condition and you could tell they punched a much nicer hole.
Mike, I cast a 265gr RD bullet from NOE. And I shoot them out of a .44 mag in both a rifle (20" barrel) and a handgun (7 1/2" barrel).
I took a deer with these bullet this year with satisfactory results through green ribs but when I tested the bullet, through the deboned shoulder through saturated corrugated cardboard then into wet pack, I noticed that the damage wasn't as significant as previous test. When I recovered the bullets I found that they have essentially just became a rn. This was fired through the shoulder blade not the heavy part of the bone. Recovered bullets from previous test without the bone were in pristine condition and you could tell they punched a much nicer hole.
To be honest I was a bit curious about all of this so I did some reading over on CB's to see where they had been and what they had come up with. Bad news is, I am still curious...
The thing that makes the most sense to me would be to up your alloy hardness to begin with, as you mentioned before you coat. However how much harder is the question.
If you do not have one of the alloy calculator's they have posted on CB's I suggest getting one or if you don't want to go that route shoot me what you have to add to your alloy and I will run it to get you close to where you want to be.
Just guessing your probably around a 13-15'ish at most right now, and I wouldn't think you would want to get much higher than around a 18'ish BHN to be honest. Doing so would put you up to where your hard enough to shatter the nose as mentioned by FrankenMauser.
I cannot say one way or the other on how well mine preform on game, other than to say the I used two like the one in the write up linked above, and blew through a 250'ish pound boar, spinning it around completely to the opposite direction, then the second one returned him back the other direction as he floundered off through the woods. I fully admit that neither shot was perfect, as he slipped right up behind my grandson and I while we were sitting out deer hunting. We were not in any sort of blind, just concealed by a cedar tree we like to sit by. When the hog came up I only had time to draw my Redhawk, point and shoot. We both however saw the golf ball sized hole in his side after he spun around as the fat layer was hanging out one side and the other was obviously plugged by intestine. We tried for several hours to find him but to no avail. The next morning however the local clean up crew had and we knew why we didn't. He had crawled up under a grown over fallen tree top which was so thick underneath that even the buzzards couldn't get to him.
I have no idea how the bullets looked as well I didn't recover either one of them. I do however know that they laid a whop on him enough to spin him around in his tracks. IF they rolled back anything like the ones pictured I can easily see why. The alloy runs around a 11-12 and those are loaded to just over 1100fps from my revolver and the distance from pistol to hog was only about 20ft at the most on the first shot, and not much if anything more than 30 on the second. I hated to have lost him, but when you don't have anything to follow and when even the dog can't track him it is hard to do anything else.
The thing that makes the most sense to me would be to up your alloy hardness to begin with, as you mentioned before you coat. However how much harder is the question.
If you do not have one of the alloy calculator's they have posted on CB's I suggest getting one or if you don't want to go that route shoot me what you have to add to your alloy and I will run it to get you close to where you want to be.
Just guessing your probably around a 13-15'ish at most right now, and I wouldn't think you would want to get much higher than around a 18'ish BHN to be honest. Doing so would put you up to where your hard enough to shatter the nose as mentioned by FrankenMauser.
I cannot say one way or the other on how well mine preform on game, other than to say the I used two like the one in the write up linked above, and blew through a 250'ish pound boar, spinning it around completely to the opposite direction, then the second one returned him back the other direction as he floundered off through the woods. I fully admit that neither shot was perfect, as he slipped right up behind my grandson and I while we were sitting out deer hunting. We were not in any sort of blind, just concealed by a cedar tree we like to sit by. When the hog came up I only had time to draw my Redhawk, point and shoot. We both however saw the golf ball sized hole in his side after he spun around as the fat layer was hanging out one side and the other was obviously plugged by intestine. We tried for several hours to find him but to no avail. The next morning however the local clean up crew had and we knew why we didn't. He had crawled up under a grown over fallen tree top which was so thick underneath that even the buzzards couldn't get to him.
I have no idea how the bullets looked as well I didn't recover either one of them. I do however know that they laid a whop on him enough to spin him around in his tracks. IF they rolled back anything like the ones pictured I can easily see why. The alloy runs around a 11-12 and those are loaded to just over 1100fps from my revolver and the distance from pistol to hog was only about 20ft at the most on the first shot, and not much if anything more than 30 on the second. I hated to have lost him, but when you don't have anything to follow and when even the dog can't track him it is hard to do anything else.
stubbicatt
New member
MikeTX, once I was stalked by a mountain lion while coyote calling. I think your hog story is more harrowing than mine! So hogs have taken over the predator niche in nature in Texas?
reloader28
New member
What gun and bullet are you using?
Have you actually tested these bullets to see how they perform?
My testing shows that the RF dont turn round, it gets a bigger meplat.
My hunting bullets are about 10.5 BHN. 50/50/2% lead/WW/tin.
I aint got much expansion (that I've seen anyway) with straight WW. I would suggest you go softer for hunting, but thats my opinion.
Have you actually tested these bullets to see how they perform?
My testing shows that the RF dont turn round, it gets a bigger meplat.
My hunting bullets are about 10.5 BHN. 50/50/2% lead/WW/tin.
I aint got much expansion (that I've seen anyway) with straight WW. I would suggest you go softer for hunting, but thats my opinion.
Reloader28, see post 6 for the answers you seek 
Due to the terrain that I hunt I would rather have the increased penetration of a non-expanding flat nose bullet due to unknown shot angles. I used XTP's for years but if I ever had any type of quartering shot the bullets failed to exit resulting in a tedious tracking job, I would like to avoid that.
BTW, the 50/50 plus 2 alloy is my default if I can't get this bullet to do what I want
Due to the terrain that I hunt I would rather have the increased penetration of a non-expanding flat nose bullet due to unknown shot angles. I used XTP's for years but if I ever had any type of quartering shot the bullets failed to exit resulting in a tedious tracking job, I would like to avoid that.
BTW, the 50/50 plus 2 alloy is my default if I can't get this bullet to do what I want
Hog Buster
New member
You want hard cast bullets? I may be a bit tough to find now, but linotype metal casts bullets harder than woodpecker lips. Damn near AP's.
I shot a ton of them in years past, when linotype was fairly available. The only problem I encountered was sizing them. Broke the handle on a Lyman 450 after sizing a large batch. Not to mention wearing out my right arm. Casts lighter than #2 alloy, but believe me them's some hard-ass bullets.
You can probably find the mix for linotype somewhere on the internet and mix your own since I doubt you'll find much scrap anymore. Might be a bit expensive to do, but what ever jerks your rope.
I shot a ton of them in years past, when linotype was fairly available. The only problem I encountered was sizing them. Broke the handle on a Lyman 450 after sizing a large batch. Not to mention wearing out my right arm. Casts lighter than #2 alloy, but believe me them's some hard-ass bullets.
You can probably find the mix for linotype somewhere on the internet and mix your own since I doubt you'll find much scrap anymore. Might be a bit expensive to do, but what ever jerks your rope.
FrankenMauser
New member
Running "pure" linotype is wasteful.
Way too hard. Way too much antimony going down range. And far beyond what a .44 Mag needs.
I mistakenly grabbed the wrong alloy for some 437 gr .430" bore-riders (A.K.A.: The "One Ounce Suppository"), a few years ago. Way too hard, even for this bullet's intended application; but it sure does make some purdy bullets.
The result was still useful for fine-tuning alloys, though...
Linotype one ounce "Ingots":
Way too hard. Way too much antimony going down range. And far beyond what a .44 Mag needs.
I mistakenly grabbed the wrong alloy for some 437 gr .430" bore-riders (A.K.A.: The "One Ounce Suppository"), a few years ago. Way too hard, even for this bullet's intended application; but it sure does make some purdy bullets.
The result was still useful for fine-tuning alloys, though...
Linotype one ounce "Ingots":
Hog Buster
New member
I had almost forgotten how good linotype bullets looked. I've been casting too much wheel weight in the last few years. That dull gray finish must have dimmed my recollection of them silver devils. It might have been a waste, but I put many of them downrange shooting Bullseye matches. Won quite a few with them too.... You could just about dig them out of the butts, resize them, and shoot them again. They gave real meaning to "Hard Cast"............. So much for ancient history and thanks for the reminder FrankenMauser.