How likely is primer detonation in a tube mag?

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TruthTellers

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I have a .327 Henry and plan to get a .45 Colt Rossi by Summer. I reload for both calibers and was wondering if I use a semi wadcutter, a JSP, or a RNFP bullet and not a hollow point or Hornady Leverevolution bullet, how much more likely is the chance of a primer detonation in the tube magazine?

I have question whether or not the .32 Long or H&R Mag have enough enough recoil in the Henry to make a primer go off, but with hot .45 Colt I could see it with the right bullet profile.

Is this something worth worrying about?
 
In some cases the detonations occurred when the lever was worked. The round in the back of the mag 2nd from the receiver has the weight of all the rest on it's primer and the nose of the bullet behind it on the primer. So if the lever is work fast the the column of rounds moves quickly down, the force on the 2nd to the last round is pretty great compared to what is on the top (muzzle end) of the magazine. The weight of all the rest of the loaded rounds plus the compression weight of the spring.
So it's not just recoil that can cause the detonation but sometimes it's the magazine spring and the weight of the loaded rounds.
In any case, it's not a good idea to "test the theory"
 
No help with the .327 round, but, with .45 Colt, I don't believe you'd be loading anything other than JSP, RNFP, maybe some sort of WC. So, I wouldn't worry too much about detonation in the tube. I load for my Henry .45 Colt with coated 250gr RNFP[Missouri bullets]. Never think about it. I don't believe they make a pointy type bullet for that, other than Hornady's FTX. Hope this helps a bit.
 
I loaded the Lyman #311291, a round nose cast bullet for use in the M94 Winchester and later in in a Marlin 336 as well starting way back in 1954. Most of those load were at full power with the lead bullet being just hard enough to not lead at the higher velocity. I was told over and over again that the bullet might set off a primer and I should use a flat nose bullet. Never had a problem. I did buy a Lyman #31141 now labeled #311041 plus a clone by NEI but I never could get those bullets to group so I just went back to #311291. Now this is just my thoughts based on my limited experience but I would think the odds of that happening are probably quite slim. Has it actually happened? probably of people wouldn't be talking about it but IIRC, Remington used a rather round nosed bullet in their 30-30 factory loads and AFAIK, none have set of a primer in the magazine.
I think where the problem might occur is it someone used a reload with a spitzer type bullet and that sharp nose hit a primer just right, then maybe it might happen.
If the OP sticks to flat or round nose bullets then I don't think he'd have a problem.
Paul B.
 
The risk is close to zero. If it was even remotely likely, the lawsuits would have ended tube magazines years ago. Common sense rules apply.

How many hollow points or Hornady Revolution bullets were used in the first 100 years of the levergun's existance? Not many.
 
TruthTellers said:
I have a .327 Henry and plan to get a .45 Colt Rossi by Summer. I reload for both calibers and was wondering if I use a semi wadcutter, a JSP, or a RNFP bullet and not a hollow point or Hornady Leverevolution bullet, how much more likely is the chance of a primer detonation in the tube magazine?

I have question whether or not the .32 Long or H&R Mag have enough enough recoil in the Henry to make a primer go off, but with hot .45 Colt I could see it with the right bullet profile.

Is this something worth worrying about?
Click to expand...
The real detonation danger is with spitzer bullets. Round nose, flat points, and non spitzer hollow points have been the norm in tube mags.
 
Ever notice how tough it is to find .30-30 FMJ ammo?? :rolleyes:

Wyosmith got it right with the part that about everyone leaves out, its not JUST the recoil, its also the rounds in the magazine under spring pressure (remember how you had to push to load them through the gate?) slamming back when the round being fed is lifted to go into the chamber.

We say its recoil that can detonate rounds in the tube, and recoil can be the cause when it happens but it doesn't happen the way recoil mashes the nose of bullets in a box magazine. It's more like the way recoil "pulls" the bullet from a revolver case.

The rifle recoils back, the rounds in the tube want to stay where they are (inertia), so the seem to "float" in the tube, until the spring shoves the entire ammo column back to the stops, so what you get is the entire weight of the ammo column driven by the magazine spring, against a hard stop, which can apply considerable force to the primer.

The heavier the recoil, the further the rifle recoils away from the rounds in the tube, and so on.

We get around this problem by using ammo with bullet tips with flat or rounded profiles, softer than the primer cup metal, and sometimes larger than the primer in diameter. As long as the force on the primer isn't a (fairly) sharp, hard point, primer detonation is unlikely.

Remington came up with a unique solution to the issue in their pre-WWII pump rifles, the models 14 and 141, using "dimples" in the tube magazeing body that created a "spiral" in the ammo column, so that the tip of each bullet did not rest on the primer of the round ahead of it. This allowed the safe use of pointed bullets in those rifles.

I remember hearing a story from the 70s (or maybe earlier, and just passed on) about a fellow who lost a couple fingers from a chainfire magazine detonation, due to his use of too pointed, too hard bullets in a .348 Winchester. No idea if it was real, or a made up "warning", but possibly real, as the .348 has a whole different level of recoil than a .30-30 class round, and compared to the recoil of a .327 or .45 Colt, its in a whole different galaxy.

Load the usual "standard" bullets (and loads) for the caliber and odds are extremely low you'll be at risk of a magazine detonation.
 
"...a semi wad cutter, a JSP, or a RNFP bullet..." All of those will be fine as they are not pointy enough to have their point resting on the primer in front of them.
It's got very little to do with recoil. It's about where the bullet is in relation to the primer.
"...to find .30-30 FMJ ammo..." That's more about the illegality of using FMJ's for hunting deer and the .30-30 not being a military cartridge. Easy enough to load 'em for varmints if you want to though. 150 grains is 150 grains.
 
I remember reading in one of the gum rags about 50 years ago (probably Guns & Ammo, but it could have been any one of them) about how the author and an acquaintance tried to cause a magazine tube detonation. They went through dozens of pointed profile bullets, both FMJ and soft points, before they actually got one to detonate. It happened when there were just a few cartridges left in the tube magazine, so the recoil could push the rounds pretty far down the magazine tube under recoil and give them a run at the pointy bullet that was going to do the deed. Yes, the round detonated and split the magazine tube open. Yes, the forearm was also damaged. But it was not the spectacular explosion people would have wanted, and it was pretty mild according to them. Nevertheless, nobody wants an explosion between their pinkies. It is very difficult to make happen. Seems it could only happen when people reloaded ammo with pointy bullets to get the most out of the old 30-30 or whatever cartridge. But in my teenage mind, it was a tremendous hazard waiting to remove body parts, so I made sure I always loaded with flat point or round nosed ammo. Fast forward several decades and now I frequently load 30-30s with pointy bullets, but nowadays I'm loading for a Savage 99.
 
Remington .30-30 is pretty roundnosed.

There were a few sensible hunters who wanted to stretch their .30-30s.
They settled for a spitzer in the chamber and ONE in the magazine.

If lever actions were tackytickle, there might be a market for magazine tubes like the .30 Remington pump.
 
I had read for years that a pointed bullet could set off the primer in a tube magazine. Not believing every thing I read I decided to see for my self.

I drilled a hole in my work bench so the a primed 30-30 brass would drop in and stop on the rim. Then I took a 150gr Remington spitzer bullet and holding it with pliers I put the point right on the center of the primer and hit it with a hammer. Nothing. So I did it again. And again. And again until I had beat the nose of the bullet flat. The primer never went off.

Then I dropped the brass in the chamber of my Marlin 30-30 and dropped the hammer and fired the primer just to make sure the primer was really OK. So I for one don't really buy in to the idea of a pointed bullet setting off a primer in a tube fed magazine. But I don't tell people to load those either.

One problem with loading a pointed bullet in a 30-30 case is that the bullet has to be seated so deep in the case to work through the action that the bullet is seated past the ogive of the bullet. I guess you could shorten the case neck but whats the point? Most spitzers are designed to work at higher than 30-30 velocities anyway.

I don't think the OP has worry about any bullets in the 327 round getting set off by accident.
 
I witnessed a magazine tube detonation in a replica Henry rifle at a Cowboy Action Shooting match. The shooter was using hand loaded lead RNFP .45 Colt ammunition. He claimed that he did not release the magazine follower from its top position, but the detonation occurred when he had completed loading 10 rounds and prepared to shoot in the next stage of the match. Two rounds discharged, bulging the magazine tube and inflicting minor wounds on the owner.

Use of handloads might indicate a primer that was not fully seated. We examined other cartridges from the shooter's supply that did not exhibit this defect.
 
I also witnessed a magazine tube detonation from a replica 357 magnum Golden Henry, that happened to a shooter who was in the standing position; at our outdoor gun range about 15 years ago. I'm not sure how it happened, because we were more concerned about getting the guy to a hospital, since the SRSO was about a quarter of a mile away.

He suffered shrapnel wounds to his left support arm and a shrapnel puncture wound to his abdomen, just below his belly button.

He drove to a hospital in his own pickup truck...and I never saw him again at the range. The staff RSO ask me if I got his range badge number...and I told him that I did not.
 
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