How I'll pay the $100 census fine.
- Thread starter Longshot
- Start date
Jeff Thomas
New member
Why pay the fine at all? I'm curious about their other options, if you don't pay. I'll bet they're not keen on locking people up for failing to fill out their forms. That would make it seem too, well ... national socialist, so to speak. 
Anyone know what course the feds have open to them if you simply don't pay their $100 fine? My bet is that they don't levy these fines, and they are simply an available, but unused hammer.
Regards from AZ.
Anyone know what course the feds have open to them if you simply don't pay their $100 fine? My bet is that they don't levy these fines, and they are simply an available, but unused hammer.
Regards from AZ.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
From what I'm finding on the Net, the feds don't have enough employees to deal with us "scofflaws" within the next ten years...Lotsa folks are just not gonna bother with their snoopiness, apparently...
Where'd you hear about the $100 fine?
, Art
[This message has been edited by Art Eatman (edited March 16, 2000).]
Where'd you hear about the $100 fine?
, Art[This message has been edited by Art Eatman (edited March 16, 2000).]
Well, since there's nothing on the census that asks about political inclinations or gun ownership, or even how many pets you have, I see no reason not to take the 10 minutes and fill it out. It is in reality how the basis of tax dollars are divided up in this country.
It only asks how much money you make, which you tell them annually on your taxes anyway, and how much it costs to live in your neighborhood. Which they already know because they have average housing costs for the entire country for use by government employees who recieve housing allowances. To make sure I missed nothing, I pulled out my booklet, my wife isn't finished yet, and there are NO questions about political parties or militias, or what size underware you have on. It is benign and non-intrusive. It asks you about the type of job you have, which they already know from when you file taxes with your buisness's tax I.D. code. It is totally non-intrusive. The only people who may not want to fill it out are illegal aliens, to which I say they need to go back where they came from anyway. We have enough problems as it is around here, why add to the chaos. The census gathers basic information they already have, it just gives them a combined source to gather it from.
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I thought I'd seen it all, until a 22WMR spun a bunny 2 1/4 times in the air!
[This message has been edited by DOCSpanky (edited March 16, 2000).]
It only asks how much money you make, which you tell them annually on your taxes anyway, and how much it costs to live in your neighborhood. Which they already know because they have average housing costs for the entire country for use by government employees who recieve housing allowances. To make sure I missed nothing, I pulled out my booklet, my wife isn't finished yet, and there are NO questions about political parties or militias, or what size underware you have on. It is benign and non-intrusive. It asks you about the type of job you have, which they already know from when you file taxes with your buisness's tax I.D. code. It is totally non-intrusive. The only people who may not want to fill it out are illegal aliens, to which I say they need to go back where they came from anyway. We have enough problems as it is around here, why add to the chaos. The census gathers basic information they already have, it just gives them a combined source to gather it from.
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I thought I'd seen it all, until a 22WMR spun a bunny 2 1/4 times in the air!
[This message has been edited by DOCSpanky (edited March 16, 2000).]
The only question that you have to answer, by law, is: the number of people living at this address. Nothing else.
Article 1 section 2 clause 3 of the United States Constitution. The census issupposed to be used to determine the representitives needed.
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jones
[This message has been edited by jones (edited March 16, 2000).]
Article 1 section 2 clause 3 of the United States Constitution. The census issupposed to be used to determine the representitives needed.
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jones
[This message has been edited by jones (edited March 16, 2000).]
Jeff Thomas
New member
Per an RKBA email list:
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The applicable law is 13 USC 221, "Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers":
(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.
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Libertarian Party Director Steve Dasbach says, "Real Americans don't answer
nosy Census questions. You can strike a blow for privacy, equality, and liberty by refusing to answer every question on the Census form except the one required by the Constitution: How many people live in your home?"
http://www.lp.org/rel/20000114-census.html
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From the link:
"This week, in an attempt to reverse declining response rates, Census Bureau Director Kenneth Prewitt held a press conference to plead with Americans to view the once-a-decade Census as a 'civic ceremony.'
The results of the Census, lectured Prewitt, affect 'power, money, group interests, civil rights; in short, who gets how much of what.'"
Yes, Mr. Prewitt, that is indeed what it is all about, isn't it? Our money is taken from us by force, we submit our financial progress to you for the past year on a tax return, you coerce personal data from us, and then you decide how much of our money can be returned to us. Attractive system you have there ... land of the free, and the home of the brave.
We can do better. Our ancestors certainly did.
[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited March 16, 2000).]
********************************************
The applicable law is 13 USC 221, "Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers":
(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.
********************************************
Libertarian Party Director Steve Dasbach says, "Real Americans don't answer
nosy Census questions. You can strike a blow for privacy, equality, and liberty by refusing to answer every question on the Census form except the one required by the Constitution: How many people live in your home?"
http://www.lp.org/rel/20000114-census.html
********************************************
From the link:
"This week, in an attempt to reverse declining response rates, Census Bureau Director Kenneth Prewitt held a press conference to plead with Americans to view the once-a-decade Census as a 'civic ceremony.'
The results of the Census, lectured Prewitt, affect 'power, money, group interests, civil rights; in short, who gets how much of what.'"
Yes, Mr. Prewitt, that is indeed what it is all about, isn't it? Our money is taken from us by force, we submit our financial progress to you for the past year on a tax return, you coerce personal data from us, and then you decide how much of our money can be returned to us. Attractive system you have there ... land of the free, and the home of the brave.
We can do better. Our ancestors certainly did.
[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited March 16, 2000).]
Dennis Olson
New member
Doc, I have a FORTY PAGE questionnaire. You would NOT believe the info they want.
I think I'll pay my fine in ONE PESO COINS, or some other countries coinnage where it'll take about 1,000,000 of them to equal that $100.
Hey, it's legal currency, and the gov't can bloody well exchange it.
I think I'll pay my fine in ONE PESO COINS, or some other countries coinnage where it'll take about 1,000,000 of them to equal that $100.
Hey, it's legal currency, and the gov't can bloody well exchange it.
http://www.2000.census.gov/iqa/forms/d2.html
This should save everyone some time.... More detail on each question can be
found at the web site.
Question 1: Name
Question 2: Household Relationship
Question 3: Sex
Question 4: Age and Date of Birth
Question 5: Hispanic or Latino
Question 6: Race
Question 7: Marital Status
Question 8a-b: School Attendance and Grade Attending
Question 9: Educational Attainment
Question 10: Ancestry or Ethnic Origin
Question 11a-c: Language Spoken Other Than English, Language, English
Ability
Question 12: Place of Birth
Question 13: Citizenship
Question 14: Year of Entry
Question 15a-b: Residence 5 Years Ago and Where Lived 5 Years Ago
Question 16a-b: Disability: Seeing/Hearing and Basic Physical Activities
Question 17a-b: Disability: Mental, Self-Care, Going Outside the Home, and
Work
Question 19a-c: Grandparents as Caregivers
Question 20a-c: Veteran Status, Period of Active Duty Military Service, and
Years of Active Duty
Question 21: Work Last Week
Question 22a-f: Place of Work
Question 23a: Means of Transportation to Work
Question 23b: Private Vehicle Occupancy
Question 24a: Time Leaving Home to go to Work
Question 24b: Travel Time from Home to Work
Question 25a-e: Layoff from Work, Temporarily Absent from Work, Layoff
Recall,
Looking for Work, Availability for Work
Question 26: Year Last Worked
Question 27a-c: For Whom Did You Work, Kind of Business or Industry, Type of
Business
Question 28a-b: Occupation and Occupational Duties/Activities
Question 29: Class of Worker
Question 30a-c: Worked Last Year, Weeks Worked, Hours Worked
Question 31a-h: Income
Question 32: Total Income
Question 33: Tenure
Question 34: Units in Structure
Question 35: Year Structure Built
Question 36: Year Householder Moved In
Question 37: Rooms
Question 38: Number of Bedrooms
Question 39: Plumbing Facilities
Question 40: Kitchen Facilities
Question 41: Telephone Service
Question 42: House Heating Fuel
Question 43: Number of Automobiles, Vans, and Trucks
Question 44a: Business or Medical Office
Question 44b: Acreage
Question 44c: Sale of Agricultural Products
Question 45a-d: Annual Cost of Utilities
Question 46a: Rent
Question 46b: Meals Included in Rent
Question 47a: Mortgage
Question 47b: Mortgage Payment
Question 47c: Mortgage Includes Real Estate Taxes
Question 47d: Mortgage Includes Fire, Hazard, Or Flood Insurance
Question 48a: Second Mortgage and Home Equity Loan
Question 48b: Second Mortgage and Home Equity Loan Payment
Question 49: Real Estate Taxes
Question 50: Cost of Insurance
Question 51: Property Value
Question 52: Condominium and Condominium Fee
Question 53a-b: Mobile Home Installment Loan and Mobile Home Costs
This should save everyone some time.... More detail on each question can be
found at the web site.
Question 1: Name
Question 2: Household Relationship
Question 3: Sex
Question 4: Age and Date of Birth
Question 5: Hispanic or Latino
Question 6: Race
Question 7: Marital Status
Question 8a-b: School Attendance and Grade Attending
Question 9: Educational Attainment
Question 10: Ancestry or Ethnic Origin
Question 11a-c: Language Spoken Other Than English, Language, English
Ability
Question 12: Place of Birth
Question 13: Citizenship
Question 14: Year of Entry
Question 15a-b: Residence 5 Years Ago and Where Lived 5 Years Ago
Question 16a-b: Disability: Seeing/Hearing and Basic Physical Activities
Question 17a-b: Disability: Mental, Self-Care, Going Outside the Home, and
Work
Question 19a-c: Grandparents as Caregivers
Question 20a-c: Veteran Status, Period of Active Duty Military Service, and
Years of Active Duty
Question 21: Work Last Week
Question 22a-f: Place of Work
Question 23a: Means of Transportation to Work
Question 23b: Private Vehicle Occupancy
Question 24a: Time Leaving Home to go to Work
Question 24b: Travel Time from Home to Work
Question 25a-e: Layoff from Work, Temporarily Absent from Work, Layoff
Recall,
Looking for Work, Availability for Work
Question 26: Year Last Worked
Question 27a-c: For Whom Did You Work, Kind of Business or Industry, Type of
Business
Question 28a-b: Occupation and Occupational Duties/Activities
Question 29: Class of Worker
Question 30a-c: Worked Last Year, Weeks Worked, Hours Worked
Question 31a-h: Income
Question 32: Total Income
Question 33: Tenure
Question 34: Units in Structure
Question 35: Year Structure Built
Question 36: Year Householder Moved In
Question 37: Rooms
Question 38: Number of Bedrooms
Question 39: Plumbing Facilities
Question 40: Kitchen Facilities
Question 41: Telephone Service
Question 42: House Heating Fuel
Question 43: Number of Automobiles, Vans, and Trucks
Question 44a: Business or Medical Office
Question 44b: Acreage
Question 44c: Sale of Agricultural Products
Question 45a-d: Annual Cost of Utilities
Question 46a: Rent
Question 46b: Meals Included in Rent
Question 47a: Mortgage
Question 47b: Mortgage Payment
Question 47c: Mortgage Includes Real Estate Taxes
Question 47d: Mortgage Includes Fire, Hazard, Or Flood Insurance
Question 48a: Second Mortgage and Home Equity Loan
Question 48b: Second Mortgage and Home Equity Loan Payment
Question 49: Real Estate Taxes
Question 50: Cost of Insurance
Question 51: Property Value
Question 52: Condominium and Condominium Fee
Question 53a-b: Mobile Home Installment Loan and Mobile Home Costs
I understand that our government is empowered by the Constitution and legitimately needs to know (1) how many residents there are in each household, and (2) how many eligible voters there are in each household.
However, the 15th Amendment states "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."
The 19th Amendment states "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex."
Thus, information about race or sex is not required for the proper apportionment of congressional districts.
All assurances that your individual information is confidential aside, the statistical summary data WILL be used to gerrymander the boundaries of congressional districts to benefit the major political parties.
The only questions I will answer will be those asking for a head count (enumeration), and the age and citizenship of each resident.
However, the 15th Amendment states "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."
The 19th Amendment states "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex."
Thus, information about race or sex is not required for the proper apportionment of congressional districts.
All assurances that your individual information is confidential aside, the statistical summary data WILL be used to gerrymander the boundaries of congressional districts to benefit the major political parties.
The only questions I will answer will be those asking for a head count (enumeration), and the age and citizenship of each resident.
Dennis Olson
New member
So Doc,
If they already know it, why do I have to give it to them again...?
Personally, I find MANY of the questions of be HIGHLY personal and offensive. You may not.
Incrementalism lives....
If they already know it, why do I have to give it to them again...?
Personally, I find MANY of the questions of be HIGHLY personal and offensive. You may not.
Incrementalism lives....
Doc, I'm sorry to hear your assessment of the situation. Please explain to me how the questions are non-intrusive. They want to know information about your life that they have no business knowing, nor were invited or welcome to ask. You are correct in that the $hitheads already have the info they are asking for somehwere else. So why dont they just go and get it their own damn self rather than intrude upon my life and demand that I waste my time answering questions that have already been answered on some other intrusive government form. Sorry, but this goes along the lines of give the a$$holes an inch and they WILL take a mile. If we dont tell them we know our rights and that we do not welcome any more intrusdion into our lives, then next decade they will ask more inane and stupid questions that have absolutely nothing to do with enumerating the populace of the country.
On a completely different note, aside from how many people live in the home, anything else is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for the Census Beuro to ask. Additionally it is illegal to ask someone their race , sex, ethnicity or disability when defining "benefits" to be received. Read Equal Oppurtunity laws, Americans with Disabilities Act, Affirmative Action laws... This is why on job applications you can not ask these questions, or if you do they are optional. If the Census info is to be used as they say; to redistribute the wealth of the working people to the free loaders, then race, sex, and all that other discriminatory information can not be asked.
If they want the info, then they can do the MF'ing research. Fortunately there are laws that prevent the Census Beuro from raiding your tax forms, FBI file... that is why they have to ask you to give up the info yourself. The only purpose is so that some pe**erhead statistician can come up with more 13 kids or 500,000 felons BS to justify bigger and more expensive government. Scroom.
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If stupidity hurt, liberals would be walking around in agony.
On a completely different note, aside from how many people live in the home, anything else is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for the Census Beuro to ask. Additionally it is illegal to ask someone their race , sex, ethnicity or disability when defining "benefits" to be received. Read Equal Oppurtunity laws, Americans with Disabilities Act, Affirmative Action laws... This is why on job applications you can not ask these questions, or if you do they are optional. If the Census info is to be used as they say; to redistribute the wealth of the working people to the free loaders, then race, sex, and all that other discriminatory information can not be asked.
If they want the info, then they can do the MF'ing research. Fortunately there are laws that prevent the Census Beuro from raiding your tax forms, FBI file... that is why they have to ask you to give up the info yourself. The only purpose is so that some pe**erhead statistician can come up with more 13 kids or 500,000 felons BS to justify bigger and more expensive government. Scroom.
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If stupidity hurt, liberals would be walking around in agony.
Slowpoke_Rodrigo
New member
Question 1 pertains to 'actual Enumeration' langauge as jones pointed out and is constitutional and legitimate.
The fedgov has no constitutional foundation for posing the subsequent questions, long or short form. To answer those questions is to aid and abet divide-and-conquer socialists. They want the sheeple to squabble over fedgov monies, rather than realize that these are state and local functions and should be funded at the state and local level as the Founders intended.
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Slowpoke Rodrigo...he pack a gon...
Vote for the Neal Knox 13
The fedgov has no constitutional foundation for posing the subsequent questions, long or short form. To answer those questions is to aid and abet divide-and-conquer socialists. They want the sheeple to squabble over fedgov monies, rather than realize that these are state and local functions and should be funded at the state and local level as the Founders intended.
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Slowpoke Rodrigo...he pack a gon...
Vote for the Neal Knox 13
Jeff Thomas
New member
Wow. Thanks, dZ.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is clearly a form created by a government committee, no?
That, ladies and gentlemen, is clearly a form created by a government committee, no?
I'm guessing you'd need to be convicted under 13 USC 221 before any fining would go on. Since the census paperwork has no names on it (unless you write in the information) how are they going to convict any particular person of a violation?
Sure, they've got your address, but how are they going to tie you as an actual person to the form? How are they going to prove that you actually received the form. If they come to your house and you don't talk to them, how are they going to identify you?
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Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
Sure, they've got your address, but how are they going to tie you as an actual person to the form? How are they going to prove that you actually received the form. If they come to your house and you don't talk to them, how are they going to identify you?
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Help! Help! I'm being repressed!