How hot can a .380 go?

B

BlasterMaster

Inactive
Hello, I was wondering what the maximum velocity of a .380 bullet could be from, for the sake of arguement, a 4" barrel. What is the hottest factory load you can get and what velocity can be reached? Also, for you reloaders out there, what is the highest velocity that can be safely acheived from a handload? Thank you very much for any information provided. :)

BM*
 
Blastmaster, you are appropriately named if you want to hodrod the .380. :) I'd consider a larger caliber, instead of trying to squeeze the last bit from the .380.
 
If you look at the reloading manuals, there are various combinations of components that can get up over 1000 to 1100 fps with 90 and 88 grn JHP's out of a 380. BUT, I would not recommend them in a straight blowback like a ppk/s.

My reloads using 88 and 90 grn jhp's and use Unique, Power Pistol and Blue Dot and they do run up in the 1000+ fps range (for legal reasons details are best left out). BUT!, they snap pretty bad out of the PPK/s and make my beretta MD84 really kick quite sharply. Both of these are blowbacks. The same loads out of my gov. 380 (locked breach) are very mild and easy to rapid fire.

Personally I shoot silvertips out of my PPK/s because it is my carry gun and I have it all of the time with me. (I have yet to find a good way of carrying a bigger gun in the heat of the deep south.)

Now as to kick out of those hot little 380 reloads in blowbacks: I would much rather shoot hot to blistering hot 10mm reloads out of my glock or witness then put the same number of rounds out of my ppk/s or md84. Besides, the witness does not crease my hand and draw blood everytime you shoot it.

Does this help?

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P229 Sport and 357 SIG, H&K P7PSP and 9MM, Dual Perfection!!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter M. Eick: ... Personally I shoot silvertips out of my PPK/s because it is my carry gun and I have it all of the time with me. (I have yet to find a good way of carrying a bigger gun in the heat of the deep south ...[/quote]Have you tried the Kahr MK9? It's the same size as a PPK (although a little blockier) and shoots the more powerful 9mm parabellum? Reliability & accuracy are excellent.
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
fud-nra.gif
 
So I am not the only one that thinks a PPK/S in .380 has some snap on the recoil? Mine has the grips thinned down and recheckered thinner than PPK panels and it snaps bad with a +P load. The gun will take much more than the case or hand will though,to hot and the case will blow out the feed ramp cut. With decent loads it sure does beat a .38 service load though. :)But a good Hi-Power will do much better unless you want it in your pocket.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by radom:
With decent loads it sure does beat a .38 service load though. :)[/quote]

Lots of rumors circulating out there that the .380 is about the same muzzle energy as the .38 Spc. -- or even the 9mm Makarov.

Fastest velocity load listed by Hodgdon for the 100 gr. .380 ACP is 944 fps with Unique -- 3.2" bbl.

Tula Cartridge Works (TCW / Wolf) loads the 9mm Mak with 109 gr. and 1030 fps. -- 4" bbl.

38 Spc. loads run 110 gr. and 1180 fps in a standard load, 1390 in +P -- 7" bbl.

Just for the sake of comparing similar bullet weights:

90 gr. .380 = 944 fps.--Unique.
90 gr. .38 Spc. = 1305 fps.--HS6 std. load.

Max bullet weight for the .380 is 115 gr. --778 fps.
Max bullet weight for the .38 Spc is 200 gr. -- 819 fps. 180 gr. +P for 890 fps.

38 Spc. is shooting a heavier bullet faster. That works out to more muzzle engergy -- considerably more muzzle energy.

The current theoretical position of the FBI in "caliber effectiveness" is to use the largest diameter bullet you can propel out of a barrel. You get extra points if it's large diameter and goes fast too.



[This message has been edited by JackFlash (edited July 22, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JackFlash:
Lots of rumors circulating out there that the .380 is about the same muzzle energy as the .38 Spc. -- or even the 9mm Makarov.

Fastest velocity load listed by Hodgdon for the 100 gr. .380 ACP is 944 fps with Unique -- 3.2" bbl.

Tula Cartridge Works (TCW / Wolf) loads the 9mm Mak with 109 gr. and 1030 fps. -- 4" bbl.

38 Spc. loads run 110 gr. and 1180 fps in a standard load, 1390 in +P -- 7" bbl.
[/quote]

Well, DUH! Of course there is a considerable difference between a 3.2" barrel and the .38Sp in a 7" barrel! However, if someone is carrying the .380, it's probably because of the small size. It's highly unlikely that same person would consider a hogleg with a 7" barrel!. If I want to carry something that big, I carry my Glock 21, it has no trouble beating .38Sp in every department. :)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by johnwill:
Well, DUH! Of course there is a considerable difference between a 3.2" barrel and the .38Sp in a 7" barrel! However, if someone is carrying the .380, it's probably because of the small size. It's highly unlikely that same person would consider a hogleg with a 7" barrel!. If I want to carry something that big, I carry my Glock 21, it has no trouble beating .38Sp in every department. :)

[/quote]

Better have another look at the specs. 38 Spc. J-Frame snub tosses heavier lead faster than the .380, and is probably smaller. Certainly less prone to jamming. And on any ol' day you can get the same revolver chambered in .357 magnum.

.380 won't hold a candle to the 38 Spc snubby. Period. If I need a big gun, I'll carry my 1911, Ruger 44 Mag, 12 gauge, SKS, Mausers . . . "Side arm is only to cover my ass until I get to the long gun in the truck." (If I want small, deep cover, I'll go with my Kel-Tec P-32.)




[This message has been edited by JackFlash (edited July 23, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JackFlash: ... .380 won't hold a candle to the 38 Spc snubby. Period. [/quote]True when comparing bullet against bullet (which is what this trend is about) but a hi-cap .380 (such as a BDA380 or one of the Berettas) with 14 rounds beats five rounds of .38 special any day of the week. The point being, that the .380 should not be immediately discarded because of it's smaller caliber as it definitely has a place in self defense especially for those that a recoil sensatitive.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FUD:
Originally posted by JackFlash: ... .380 won't hold a candle to the 38 Spc snubby. Period.
Click to expand...
True when comparing bullet against bullet (which is what this trend is about) but a hi-cap .380 (such as a BDA380 or one of the Berettas) with 14 rounds beats five rounds of .38 special any day of the week. The point being, that the .380 should not be immediately discarded because of it's smaller caliber as it definitely has a place in self defense especially for those that a recoil sensatitive.[/QUOTE]

"Sensitive" . . .

--One more time . . . The comparison in this thread is .380 ACP to .38 Spc. in terms of muzzle energy.

If you're going to "spray & pray" you ought to consider a crew served weapon. "The side-arm is only to cover my ass until I get to the long-gun in the truck." -- to paraphrase one of the local State Police.
 
Fud,

I have yet to come across one of those Kahr's, so when I see one I will take a look at it. Thanks for the advice.

------------------
P229 Sport and 357 SIG, H&K P7PSP and 9MM, Dual Perfection!!
 
I had a PPK/S that bordered on abusive to shoot, add in the fact that it was a jam-o-natic POS (it went back to Interarms 3X before I traded it in -). I also have SIG 232 & a Beretta 85, which are nice shooters (longer barrel and bigger grip make a lot of difference. I feel confident with either gun loaded with Corbon's, Fed H/S, Silvertips, Gold Dots, Fiocchi's or Goldern Sabres for up close & personal. Truly, bigger is better, but there are times when the .380 is the best choice fro a given circumstance. The Kahr P-9 do look nice, though. M2
 
JackFlash, I know of people who are not really shooters and do not get out to the range as often as they should but they decided to own a firearm for self defense purposes because they recognize the fact that the police can not be everywhere and untimately they are responsible for their own self defense. Due to the .380's lower recoil, they are able to shoot it much more accurately when compared to a .38 special or a 9mm. Consequently, they would do a whole lot more "spraying & praying" (as you put it) with the larger caliber gun than they would with the .380 -- which they can shoot much more accurately. Consequently, they are much better armed with a .380 than they would be with a .38 special.

I was merely trying to point out that SOME people would be better armed with a fuller-size, hi-cap .380 then they would be with a .38 special. One size doesn't fit all and a solid hit with a .380 is more effective than a miss with a .38 special. I know of one person in particular that I once trained that was able to hit the X-ring at 75 feet with a .380 but couldn't even hit the target at 50 feet with a .38 special. In addition to having a full-time job, she was also a full-time, single parent who couldn't practice more than a few times a year. Telling her to get a .38 and practice more would not have been the best thing to tell her because she couldn't and wouldn't practice more. For her, the best weapon was a hi-cap .380ACP!

Now, if you can handle a higher caliber gun, then that's even better. I'm a firm believer that a person should use the larger caliber that they can accurately shoot. However, those of us that routinely shoot the 'big stuff' need to be careful and not lose sight of the fact that for some, even the kick from a .380 might be excessive -- remember, recoil is very much a subjective thing. When I first fired my first handgun -- a .22LR, it felt like a cannon going off. Now, I shoot .40's & .45's without blinking an eye. Some people never get over that initial "shell shock" and we have to keep that in mind when sharing our wisdom with them.

Peter M. Eick, I've owned a Kahr MK9 in 9mm Parabellum for about a year now as I also live in the deep south. You can find more info about it by visiting Kahr's home page.
 
Sorry,I was refering to the service loads that where so popular for much of the century. The 158 lead RN and 110 GI FMJ at BB gun speed compared to a 80-90 gr .380 HP at 1000+fps. The .380 seems to be more deadly on old washing machines than that 158 lead load, but who ever gets attacked by a killer washer. :) :) The +P .380s are sharp in the PPK types but not as bad as some loads in a 19 Smith while a +P in a small light .38 is worse than my Smith 57.

[This message has been edited by radom (edited July 24, 2000).]
 
OK, I confess to being a "recoil junkie." My idea of a good time is to max handload something big, heavy, nasty and then go shooting. The bolt action 8mm Mauser is one of my favorites. Steel butt plate, somewhere around a 200 gr. bullet and I can get beat to death for about ten cents a round.

The "old" service load in the .38 is a 158 gr. SWC at about 700-800 fps. Still more punch than the .380 ACP. But then I have a 1911 that seems to recoil less than my K-Frame. I think it's the weight of the gun, the slide extending the recoil over a longer period, and the relatively slow velocity of the large, heavy, 45 ACP load. (Flying ashtrays at +P velocities are a different story.)
 
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