How heavy load for Vaquero?

T

Tinbucket

New member
I have a 96 production Vaquero with ugly manual engraved on the barrel.
It's .45 Colt.
I bought a box of "bear loads" 350 grain solid flat point lead at over 1400 fps.
It bruised both my hands and knuckle of middle finger on trigger guard.
I shoot what they labeled as 10.4 magnums , of 300 grain XTP seated to second cannelure , with H110 or 2400 to over 1400 fps in a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Recoil leaves rubber in you hand from the Pachmyer grips but it is like shooting .22s in comparison to the .45 Colt Carbine Bear loads.
So how stiff do you load for serious occassions, bear or otherwise, your Colt and variants single action .45s, with the ability for a second shot?
 
It's not built for 'HOT' loads. Those are for a Blackhawk or Redhawk.

Don't exceed SAAMI pressure loads in your Vaquero and it will last a long time.
 
The 'hottest' commercial .45 Colt I am aware of are the Buffalo Bore 325gr, but they only clock 1,325fps from a revolver length barrel...

If this is indeed the load you have, and your Vaquero is indeed from 1996, then they are perfectly safe in your gun...

IF you actually have a post 2005 'New Vaquero', then you should not fire these in your gun at all...

If you have some other commercial load that in fact is 350gr at 1,400fps from a revolver length barrel, I'd like to see a link...
 
"I have a 96 production Vaquero..."
Click to expand...
That's an "Old" Vaquero, and nothing less than a fixed-sight Blackhawk.
It'll take anything up to/including "Ruger Only" loads.

.
 
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Yep, it's a regular Blackhawk frame and will take 32k loads. I discovered that 10gr of Unique under a 280 Hard Cast SWC at 1050 performs as well as a 240gr 44Mag at 1400. According to Hatcher, and no bark and bite. Performance is astonishing.
 
how heavy load for vaquero

In reference to who produced the load and ballisics.
I was quoting from memory.
I think they were produced by HPR loaded in Alabama or Arizona?
It is a 20 round box.
I purchases some time ago from Sportmens Warehouse.
I went looking for the box, I have only shot one of the rounds but didn't find it.
I have all my pistol rounds, that I've been firing lately in one location
I must have hid it from myself.
I've looked on the Internet and so far no matches. HPS has a 325grain load but in fifty round boxes.
Next time in town I will see if Sportsmens Warehouse still has some,in stock.
The gun in profile looks like new Vaquero but is not labeled so and was bought in the 90s around 96. The gun feels heavier and is not as polished as a Vaquero I looked at, at Cabelas.
Just now thought to check production date. It was late 1998 early 1999.
So it is qualified to handle the load but not my hand.
 
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The gun in profile looks like new Vaquero but is not labeled so and was bought in the 90s around 96. The gun feels heavier and is not as polished as a Vaquero I looked at, at Cabelas.
Click to expand...

The gun is labeled. It has the name on it, left side, below the cylinder.

It will say either "Ruger Vaquero" or "Ruger New Vaquero". Those exact words. Below that will be the caliber (.45 Caliber)

If the gun says "Ruger Vaquero" it will stand the heavy "Ruger Only" loads.
If the gun says "Ruger New Vaquero" it will not.

Personally, I have no use for the uber heavy bullets, 250-260gr has always done well enough by me, never bothered with heavier slugs.

Also about 30 years ago, I settled on a 250gr SWC at 1100fps as being the best for me in .45 Colt. When I want more, that's what .44Mags are for! ;)

I can't imagine a 300 or 300+gr slug shooting anywhere near the point of aim with the Vaquero's fixed sights. Since you're shooting them, where do they hit??
 
I find 9.0 gr Unique behind 250 gr lead in my NMBH the drama I like without the punishment of full bore "Ruger-only". There are two levels of Ruger-only, one of which is the pressure range of the 45 ACP convertibles that are common among many of the modern production SAA clones. Many attest that 20k+ psi demands on the gun via 45 ACP qualifies it for moderate 45 Colt loads that are above SAAMI spec. That includes New Model Vaquero and Uberti convertibles.
 
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Those loads are NOT SAFE IN THAT GUN. You have already been injured by using that ammo. The gun may well be able to handle it, even if it clobbers you in the head from recoil. The ammo might be better fired off in a strong rifle.
 
I would not shoot that stuff in any Vaquero I owned. I owned one of the older models and it is not by any means a SuperRedhawk. Keep on shooting that stuff and I predict, within a 1000 rounds, that you will blow the cylinder and top strap.

This thread is worth looking at: Ruger om 44 convertible

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150409-Ruger-om-44-convertible&highlight=convertible

Post 12 provides a good fatigue analysis why shooters pushing super hot loads ought to expect the cylinder to burst.
 
Those loads are NOT SAFE IN THAT GUN.
Click to expand...
I would not shoot that stuff in any Vaquero I owned.
I owned one of the older models and it is not by any
means a SuperRedhawk
Click to expand...
Please explain why "Ruger Only" load are not safe in a Blackhawk.

From Linebaugh:The Ruger Blackhawks and Bisley models chambered for .45 Colt are approximately 80% as strong as the same Ruger chambered for .44 magnum. This means we can load the .45 Colt to 80% of the pressure of the .44 Magnum round and still maintain the 100% safety level. 80% of 40,000 is 32,000.

To check our findings we again turned to H.P White Labs and their findings paralleled ours. Ruger Blackhawks in .45 Colt caliber were destroyed in controlled test conditions at approximately 60,000 CUP pressure levels.

We went further on our own here and purposely destroyed several cylinders with loads that were later pressure tested in Industry Standard Pressure barrels that proved pressures were in the area of 60,000 CUP.
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

From The OP said:
I bought a box of "bear loads" 350 grain solid flat point lead at over 1400 fps.
Click to expand...
Where did that data come from?

HSM "Bear Ammunition" is 325gr/1,150fps
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/5...grain-lead-wide-flat-nose-gas-check-box-of-50
BufBore is a little hotter:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...olt-long-colt-p-325-grain-lead-long-flat-nose
But both should fall well within Brian Pearce's Tier-III
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL 246partial.pdf


Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating a steady diet of these things.
But barring Hulk Hogan attributes, I bet the shooter's hands give up
long before any measurable wear in the gun.


.
 
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A standard 45 Colt of 255gr moving at 1,000fps will do the trick on almost anything and will be fine in a New Vaquero. However, if yours is the Old Vaquero it will handle some really hard hitting stuff.
 
Those loads are NOT SAFE IN THAT GUN.

What I said before:
Those loads are NOT SAFE IN THAT GUN.
Click to expand...
"Not safe", means you could get hurt. While I have doubts that the load in question that was quoted is completely harmless to the gun, for a moment, let's presume the gun can shoot these loads in the thousands without straining itself. That doesn't mean that the shooter won't be injured by the intense recoil of the gun. Lay your hand on an anvil, take a hammer and give your hand a solid blow. Don't worry, it's perfectly safe......for the hammer and the anvil! OK, that's not exactly the same thing, but you get the point, right? The other thing is that all shooters are not built on the same frame. 35 year old, Mister Muscles, built like a linebacker and still in his prime, shoots that thing and thinks it's not bad at all. Me, I'm 61. I'm still climbing trees, doing dangerous tree removal, working a hard schedule and still doing some of my best work. But honestly, I'm only half the man I was when I was in my prime. Some of the knuckle-joints in my hands are getting tricky. At some point, those hot loads are hurting me in ways that I don't need. Honestly, it's injurious. It wasn't when I was younger.
I do think that my Vaquero could take a steady diet of loads that are hotter than I care to shoot. But it has limitations too. But 325 grain loads at 1,400? I wouldn't do that to myself or my gun either. We weren't made for that. I wouldn't let anyone else shoot ammo like that in my gun. That's just abusive.
 
Ahem....
Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating a steady diet of these things.
But barring Hulk Hogan attributes, I bet the shooter's hands give up
long before any measurable wear in the gun.
Click to expand...

The ["Ruger Only"] loads are safe in that [Full Frame Blackhawk] gun.*


Can the OP shoot them? Yes/Maybe.*

Should the OP make a steady diet of them ? Aaaaaahhh.......**




*
BUT..... I'm having a real problem in coming up with a 325gr/1,400fps load out of any revolver.
I do run BearTooth 340's out of my `94 Marlin at 1,400 all the time. But that's my limit... and that's in a RIFLE.

** I mean geeeez, guys. We've got another poster talking 444 revolver here on the board. :eek: :rolleyes: ;)
 
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From Linebaugh:The Ruger Blackhawks and Bisley models chambered for .45 Colt are approximately 80% as strong as the same Ruger chambered for .44 magnum. This means we can load the .45 Colt to 80% of the pressure of the .44 Magnum round and still maintain the 100% safety level. 80% of 40,000 is 32,000.

To check our findings we again turned to H.P White Labs and their findings paralleled ours. Ruger Blackhawks in .45 Colt caliber were destroyed in controlled test conditions at approximately 60,000 CUP pressure levels.

We went further on our own here and purposely destroyed several cylinders with loads that were later pressure tested in Industry Standard Pressure barrels that proved pressures were in the area of 60,000 CUP.
http://www.customsixguns.com/writing...g_the_myth.htm
Click to expand...

If anyone blows up their Ruger following Linebaugh's advise, does Linebaugh provide them a new pistol and pay for any possible long term medical care. Lets, see, I have friends who pay $12,000 a year for their Obama care, and they have $9,000 deductibles. Will Linebaugh pay the cost for the insurance, or the deductible, for anyone injured following his advice?

I think it is stupid to try to find the maximum load that will blew up any firearm, with one round. Or even 100 rounds. People with that attitude towards life are welcome to hurt themselves, but me, I don't want any load to blow up any of my firearms no matter how many rounds I fire through them.

Probably the best advice will come from Ruger. If they will warranty their pistols with that load, then it should be OK to use them.
 
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It's called proof-limit testing Slamfire, and is a standard industry practice in any engineering/materials program.
When determined, it is usually considered to be twice the working load.
-- Hence the 28-30ksi "Ruger*-Only" /Tier-III for 45 Colt.

That "darn"-near every published manual/powder manufacturer has such a designation would tend to dispel and "myth" factor.
(Take a look at the Hodgdon Site for 45-Colt/Ruger-Only/325gr/LilGun)


* Full-size Blackhawk and above
 
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This is what Linebaugh quotes for a 45 Colt conversion that will handle bullets as heavy as the OP and similar velocities.

http://www.customsixguns.com/pricing.htm

BIG .45 COLT CONVERSIONS

For our big 45 Conversion we install a new barrel, a steel ejector rod housing with checkered ejector rod button, and an oversize 5 or 6 shot cylinder. These are done on Ruger frames only and we suggest the Bisley model for its superior grip and recoil control either in the Blackhawk model with adjustable sights or the Vaquero Bisley. With a 5 shot cylinder and a 7 1/2' barrel you can expect the following velocities:


Conversion in blue: $3,800.00

Conversion in stainless steel: $4,200.00
Click to expand...

As for his warranty, I have not found his warranty, only a statement:

http://www.customsixguns.com/ordering.htm

To date, we have inspected several of our early model guns that have seen a large amount of shooting with heavy loads. These guns have held up very well and we fully expect our large caliber conversions to last as long as standard caliber big bore revolvers. Abuse, not use wears out good sixguns
Click to expand...

I'll bet he has seen his share of blown up Linebaugh conversions, and probably, a lot of blown up Ruger Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks.
 
How heavy load for Vaquero?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a 96 production Vaquero with ugly manual engraved on the barrel.
It's .45 Colt.
I bought a box of "bear loads" 350 grain solid flat point lead at over 1400 fps.
It bruised both my hands and knuckle of middle finger on trigger guard.
I shoot what they labeled as 10.4 magnums , of 300 grain XTP seated to second cannelure , with H110 or 2400 to over 1400 fps in a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Recoil leaves rubber in you hand from the Pachmyer grips but it is like shooting .22s in comparison to the .45 Colt Carbine Bear loads.
So how stiff do you load for serious occassions, bear or otherwise, your Colt and variants single action .45s, with the ability for a second shot?
Click to expand...

I reread the OP and see there is confusion of the original heavy frame Vaquero and other Colt style 45s. There is no shooting of heavy loads of the bear variety in any Colt clone. The old Vaquero has to stand with its peers in the Blackhawks and NM Blackhawks, even the DA/SA Redhawk.

To answer the OP directly, my heaviest load is for the 5.5" ported Redhawk using 265 gr gas check flat nose by Cast Performance with 21.7 gr IMR4227. My 7 1/2" NMBH 45 convertible gets no more than 9 grains of Unique with a 250 gr X-treme RNFP, because that load is fun to shoot while being challenging, more of what I consider a Tier II 45 Colt load.
 
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