How hard is it to fit a 1911 barrel and bushing?

lockedcj7

New member
I'm considering buying a threaded 1911 barrel and bushing and what I'm reading online is not encouraging. Most people are saying that ALL 1911 barrels will require some degree of hand fitting due to the nature of the design. So, is it an expert job or can I do it with some sandpaper and a few small files?

Who does 1911 work for reasonable prices? Last time I took a gun to my local gunsmith, he kept it for over a year and still didn't do what I asked.

The other alternative is to buy a dedicated host for a .45 suppressor. If I do that, I'm leaning toward the Remington R1 enhanced threaded. I've handled most of the suppressor-ready offerings from Glock, FN, Sig, HK, S&W and Springfield. I like the Sigs the best but I can't justify putting more than 1K into a range toy.

Suggestions? Ideas?
 
Can you buy a slide and barrel combo and save yourself from having to hand fit? Also, if this is just a range toy you could always get something used for relatively cheap I would think.


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Are there barrel and bushing combos out there or are you buying seperately? What gun are you putting it on?

I would defenitely get the Jerry Kuhnhhausen Colt .45 auto shop manual if it's something you are seriously considering. I fit a national match bushing onto a Remington-Rand slide earlier this year. It was my first 1911 project and I didn't think it was too hard. It took over 2 hours of sanding with some 400 grit paper but I figured it's better to go cautiously then be too aggressive. I'm guessing that fitting a new barrel is going to be harder than the bushing though.
 
Depending on your expectations, most barrels other than those specifically sold as "hard fit" will drop in. "Fitting" means adjusting the barrel hood length and the locking lugs so that headspace is correct AND all three locking lugs make contact. The truth is that probably no factory 1911 and many semi-custom 1911s actually have all three locking lugs making contact. Generally the best you can hope for is two, and if the third is close then after a lot of shooting the two will deform enough to bring the third into contact.

Lastly, the hard part of fitting isn't the filing on the lugs and barrel hood, its the measuring to figure out what to file and by how much. You need accurate measuring gauges that will fit inside the slide, because you have to match the barrel to the slide and, if you can measure the slide, you have no reference data. You can't take the required measurements with a standard caliper or micrometer.

So ... what's your intended use? How much do you intend to shoot the pistol with the threaded barrel in place? What type of ammo will you be shooting -- standard power, target (light) loads, or +P?
 
as i understand it fitting the barrel to slide, and bushing to slide and barrel are some of the most difficult things to fit in the design. i could be wrong though, as i have only tore mine down and replaced a handful of parts.


a genuine 1911 gunsmith would probably charge you $100 for the service

love the 1911
 
Any replacement barrel you buy must have the same dimensions as the original,fitting any barrel to your pistol may turn out to be a tall order.So you measure the old one and machine the new one to match its specs then it fits
fine.Sand paper and small files may not do the job you are looking at a milling machine to do it right and special gauges to check it.
On the other hand you could luck out and buy a drop in part that works.
There are several qualified pistol smiths in these forums who may give you a reasonable quote for the job you want.
 
Fellow is called to fix a large and complicated engine in a generator plant.
He wanders around the thing and finally gives something a whack with a small hammer.
Everything starts working again.
He hands over a bill for many thousands of dollars for the fix.
The foreman is shocked by the huge bill and complains,
"But you were only here a few minutes and fixed it with one smack with your hammer. How can you charge so much?"
The fix it guy sez, "The charge for the hammer blow is only $50; the rest of the bill is for knowing where."

If you gotta' ask how, you probably shouldn't be tempted.
 
Thanks Aguila, your answer was most helpful. I don't mind fine hand-fitting as I have done that sort of work on other things I've made. OTOH - lapping the lugs so that they all make contact and adjusting head space without the measuring tools to do it right is probably not something I want to tackle.

Now I just need to find a good deal on a .45 with a threaded barrel.
 
Thanks Aguila, your answer was most helpful. I don't mind fine hand-fitting as I have done that sort of work on other things I've made. OTOH - lapping the lugs so that they all make contact and adjusting head space without the measuring tools to do it right is probably not something I want to tackle.

Now I just need to find a good deal on a .45 with a threaded barrel.
How much do you plan to shoot it, and what are your accuracy requirements/expectations? What would you be installing a new barrel in?

I have installed several drop-in barrels from Sarco and they have worked perfectly with zero fitting. Will they last for 100,000 rounds? I don't know, but they'll last longer than I will so it's simply not a concern.
 
If you gotta' ask how, you probably shouldn't be tempted.

g.willikers, please don't take this personally, but I really hate this attitude towards novice gunsmiths. I myself am in the process of learning to fit 1911 parts. Somehow the knowledge has to be passed on.

OP, as I said I am a novice, I'm still in the tool and information gathering stage of fitting together 1911s. That said it depends on what those tools and knowledge are worth to you. Is smithing 1911s something you think you might make a hobby? If so start the learning process and acquire the necessary tools. If not, you'd save yourself a lot of time, frustration, and money just taking it to a smith.
 
Tucker,
There's not a thing wrong with learning from scratch.
That's how it's done, one way or another.
It's asking vague questions on the web with the expectation of jumping right in and possibly ruining a perfectly good shootin' iron that's bothersome.
Glad to see that lockedcj7 is aware of that.
Don't worry about hurting my feelings, my hide is tough.
 
I hear you g.willikers, sorry I wasn't trying to start an argument, just don't want to see someone become daunted at the prospect of learning a potentially very rewarding hobby/skill. Carry on, don't mind me, nothing to see here lol.

OP, you could look at the CZ P09 as well, it comes in a threaded bbl, suppressor sight equipped flavor.
 
Tucker1371 said:
g.willikers, please don't take this personally, but I really hate this attitude towards novice gunsmiths. I myself am in the process of learning to fit 1911 parts. Somehow the knowledge has to be passed on.

OP, as I said I am a novice, I'm still in the tool and information gathering stage of fitting together 1911s. That said it depends on what those tools and knowledge are worth to you. Is smithing 1911s something you think you might make a hobby? If so start the learning process and acquire the necessary tools. If not, you'd save yourself a lot of time, frustration, and money just taking it to a smith.
There's a LOT of gunsmithing you can do on a 1911 with common hand tools, and even more with a couple of inexpensive or moderately expensive jigs. However, hard fitting a barrel takes special measuring tools that are specific to just ONE task -- measuring the locking lug locations in a 1911. The tools aren't available at the local Ace hardware store, they aren't inexpensive, and most 1911 aficionados will either never need them, or won't need them more than once in a lifetime.

I'm all about learning to work on 1911s, and passing along knowledge. Sometimes the most valuable knowledge is to understand when it's simply not practical or wise to attempt a job yourself.
 
First,I have zero experience with suppressors.
And I'll call myself a "successful hobbyist with limited 1911 experience"
My last barrel fitup went quite well,but I put a lot into it.
Surely the 1911 has been successfully suppressed,but there may be more to it than seems obvious.
As it is a recoil actuated gun,the mass of the suppressor and any comp effect you get out of the suppressor will have an effect on the cycle.I can't say for sure,but you may have some challenges to get it to run.I think most of the threaded barrels are about threading on a compensator.I'd say .687-40 threads and 578-40 threads are for comps
If you look at Youtube,there is a gentleman on there who works on 1911's who has "Moisin" in his handle.This man is an old school master with a file.He also knows the 1911.If you watch him,you can see how the low tech way is done.
I have both Kuhnhausen books,and use them.
For one gun,you will have more in tools than it will cost to pay to have it done.

With a drop in barrel,it may run,but it is unlikely it will run as JMB intended.Still,it may fall into "GI tolerance".But even "GI tolerance " is about a trained armorer and enough parts to select fit.
With a semi-fit,you will have some fitting probably.And there is a fair chance something silly like the hood being too narrow or ? may happen.A match,or Gunsmith barrel,is some work.You will have the steel to fit it right.And you will have to.
You will need a barrel centering block.It holds the barrel underlug centered in the slide for measurements and checking fits..I suggest a depth mic and 1 in mic,useful for measurement across the slide,hood width,checking file progress., I used an adjustable parallel to get my bolt face to #1 locking lug measurement for hood length.You just place it breech face to rear face of the first locking lug.That must be cut.General Tool ,I think,makes adjustable parallels.I used B+S.That tool and a mic or good calipers works fine.Use that length for end of the hood to first barrel lug.Thats how I do it.
And I own a Sylvac digital height gage,A granite surface plate,A Browne andSharpe precision magnetic vee block,a Hermann Schmidt toolmaker vise,a very nice stepped and vee-d toolmakers angle plate...I have the "special tools". I use an adjustable parallel and my Browne and Sharpe dial calipers.Just fine.
But first,with the centering block and the depth mic,you determine how many thousansths to take off the sides of the hood.You will need a bushing that fits,too.My last one,fitting a Kart bbl to a Springfield used slide,required .012 off one side,.0015 off the other.
The Prussian blue transfer in the barrel to locking lug area was beautiful!!.All three lugs even across the top,and contact with Karts little 10 oclock and 2 oclock bumps.
Depth mic from slide top to locked barrel hood,thenadd 1/2 barrel /breech dia.Write it down.Then depth mic slide top to a firing pin protruding from the breech.Add 1/2 the firing pin dia.You now have two numbers that should be very near equal. Its about lug engagement and centering the firing pin. Lug depth,and firing pin center were fine.I'm inclined to give Kart bbls some credit.
Eveything was right.

BTW,I used a 5 C collet block and test indicator to fixture the barrel accurately,and I used a Bridgeport mill rather than a file to cut the hood.I suggest a fine narrow pillar file with safe sides if you use a file.If you go easy,a hardened vee block will assist with the last few file strokes to square the end of the hood. You shoud be able to slide the file over the Vee-block without cutting it.Cheap import vee blocks are available on e-bay,So are good files.
No disrespect intended,but files work best held with two hands.That means put your workpiece in a vice.

A critical part of fitting a barrel is the underlug feet,that rest on the slide stop pin at full lockup.

I bought a 5mm(.1967) carbide 4 flute end mill,a 5mm R-8 collet to make the cut in the mill.
I made a fixture to hold the barrel on a rotary table so it had the barrel lug indicated horizontal.Sort of a vee block on its side,but with access to machine the underlug,a position stop for the underlug,and a leveling screw for indicating the underlug level.
(I watched a youtube vid of the Weigand 1911 underlug cutting fixture.It is a substitute for a rotary table.Watch the vid.I have access to a nice rotary table.)
Another way to cut the feet for the slide stop is the setup Brownells sells.A hand crank carbide cutter used through the frame.

I did a trial assembly of barrel,slde and frame.My slidestop pin mics 200.A .171 gage pin went through the frame/slide stop holes.That means I had .029 steel to come off the under lug.
Between Kunhausen's drawings,my fixture,and the rotary table on the mill,I was able to indicate over first the axis of the rotary table,then set up over the link pin hole with the indicator.
A magic marker touch off gave me my Y axisorigin to apply my .029 cut to.From Kunhausen,I figured my other offsets.. Y -.029,,x .035 for some dwell on top of the slide slop.Back to x.000.I cheated a little on the 1 deg lockup angle for the dwell. 1 deg is .0176 per in,so the .035 at 1 deg is .0006.When I got back to x.000 I moved in another .0006 on the Y dial,.The cutter radius would be so close of a blend out I was not going to worry about cranking that 1 deg on the rotary table.. Then I cranked the rotary table to cut the radius around the feet.
Oh,forgot to mention.To rough,I went through those numbers with a .1875 end mil,then switched to the .1967 end mill to finish.
It came out sweet. More measurement selected a #2 link.I can just feel that .o35 dwell climb on top of the slide stop pin if I cycle it assembled.Its subtle,but there.
So,yeah. I think of fitting a1911 bbl as a do-it myself project. :-)

Oh,a tip,about the barrel tipping in the slide,and fitting your bushing.

There is a .700,approx,bore in the slide for the barrel.I had things backwards for a long time about barrel tilt during what is called "linkdown",or unlocking.
It may be more accurate to think of "linkup" for locking.

Look at it this way,for the bushing to freely travel over the barrel as the slide cycles,the bushing and slide must be nominally coaxial in the UNLOCKED position,or they would bind. Instead of thinking of the breech dropping below center to unlock,think of it rising,approx 1 deg,above center to lock.So we must provide clearance for the breech to rise that 1 deg above center up front at the barrel bushing.
If you know your bbl dia,an EGW angle bored bushing is one way.
If you go to the Scheumann barrel site,there should be a ref on 1911 timing.That same ref is written in Khunhauasen.
Link length has to be right,after the feet/slidestop/lugs lockup is right.The barrel and slide travel together,locked,until the link draws the barrel down out of the lugs in the slide.This unlocking,with some clearance ,must be complete before the barrel hits the vertical impact surface in the frame(a topic in itself!!!) Its very bad/destructive if there is insufficient clearance between the slide lugs and barrel lugs.They catch edges and batter.
The strong part of the barrel/frame impact needs to be at the root of where the barrel and underlug meet.Not down at the feet. Or bad things happen!!
OH!! :-) And the underside of the barrel breech needs to be drawn down to rest in the frame saddle just as the barrel and frame vertical impact surfaces meet!!!.That timing can be tuned a bit,assuming the link length is correct,by trimming a little materal off the rearface of the barrel underlug .With a little more reaward travel,the link willdraw the barrel down farther....

BUT WAIT!!! If the barrel travels just alittle too far to the rear,you lose the required 1/32 step from frame feed ramp to the barrel chamber mouth!!
Don't want to mess that up.

So,yeah,as you can see,no big deal to fit a 1911 barrel.

And those darn pistol smiths charge so much for a simple little job.They take forever...And some of those guys are cranky!!
Locked CJ7,like I said,I'm just an amateur hobbyist.I do not even own a Dremel.I do not feel qualified to run one.

I don't know what I would use sandpaper on,working on a 1911.
I might use polishing stones.Files? Yes,you can do most everything with files.
E-bay,look for Nicholson,Simonds,Grobet.narrow and extra narrow pillar files.
Oh,order a tube of Dykem Prussian Blue.Also called "Hy-Spot" an acid brush spreads it fairly well,so does a pipe cleaner or que-tip.
When you file,its important to know what steel to remove,and what to leave alone.Prussian blue is an ink-like stuff.It transfers.Like carbon paper,but with great enthusiasm.Put the Prussian blue on the part you do not want to file.

Example,on the slide in the lugs area,after the hood is fit.. Very carefully,holding the barrel not touching the slide,install the bushing.Nowpush the alignment block over the barrel underlug.,and into the slide,with the hood against the breech face.Push it up into full lockup.You can even give it a light tap,but,light!!.The barrel,etc is actually pretty flexible.
Now,pull it down out of lockup,carefully remove the barrel and bushing,and read what the ink tells you.
The ink marks where you have contact,often,where to file,just a little,and you will get more contact.Then try again.If you find you must filedown in the barrel lugs(we hope not) you really need a safe sided pillar file,narrow enough for the slots.. .170,maybe. Brownells or Midway may have a"special"one.1911 lug file.I did not need one for my Kart barrel.It was NOT the EZ-Fit.
As far as fitting the surface area of the actual locking lug surfaces,It was originally done with the proof load seating things in.
 
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I've installed a couple of Kart EZ-fit barrels, which I think are now called something like "Accufit" or "Exactafit", and it was not especially difficult.
Kart sells an installation kit with the necessary tools, and while it took me a lot longer than the hour suggested in the instructions, it was more a matter of being doubly and triply sure about what I was seeing and doing, than it being complicated.
Installation of a "semi-fit" barrel from Storm Lake Machine was much more difficult, as there were no instructions to help with determining where and when fitting would be needed.
 
Take heart man,fitting an aftermarket barrel to a pistol is no easy task,at best
it's a gamble if you don't have the tooling and at worst it's a waste of time and
money.Just to give you an idea Jerry Kuhnhausen in his bible says that if the slide overhangs the frame after fitting the barrel you just grind it off to blend.
No big deal.
There's a lot to it,many variables,many different proprietary specs and in the end,you have to wonder if it was worth it.
 
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