How far can you move a shoulder

S

Slinky Pickle

New member
I've acquired a lovely old Win 95 in .30-40 Krag. Although I can find ammo in a few places, I keep coming across threads on various sites (including this one) where people have talked about forming .30-40 from .303 British. When I look at the case drawings, I would need to bump the shoulder back .065". That seems like a lot to shove through a full length sizing die. The overall length would still come up a fair bit short but that would probably be manageable. I just can't get my head around pushing the shoulder back that far. I'm assuming you would definitely have to anneal the brass before attempting something like that. I'm not sure I'll even bother trying it but I would love to hear what others have to say about pushing a shoulder back that far.
 
Last edited:
I have set 300 Win Mag shoulders about .085 inch making 30-338 Keele cases. No extra lub or annealing whatsoever. Cases reloaded 15 to 20 times.

First 308 Winchester cases I ever reloaded were made from 30-06 cases, their shoulders were set back quite a bit.

Use the 303 cases with set back shoulders.
 
Last edited:
You can move a shoulder as far as you need to, provided appropriate steps are taken.
I have formed .577-450 from 24 ga shot shells and .577 Snider cases. Doing so requires forming a shoulder on formerly straight-walled cases, and then pushing it something like 0.940". Care. Attention. Lube. Annealing. All are important. But it's not difficult.

Something like .30-40 Krag from .303 British? Piece of cake.
Most of my .30-40 brass started as .303 Brit.
Use good lube. (I prefer Imperial Sizing wax for case forming.)
I started going about half way in one stroke, and then finishing in another. After a while, I just went all the way with one sizing operation. -- No annealing or additional steps. Just size and go.
I never lost a case.
 
I've formed a lot of 7.7x58 Arisaka from .30-06. I figure I move the should back around a 1/4" or so... I do it in 3 steps but I only use the Arisaka sizing do to do it.

Tony
 
Moving the shoulder back shouldn't be problem. But don't forget to ream / turn the neck afterwards to remove the excessive thickness. That could be a bit tricky to do.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
I form 40-70WCF from 45-90 brass. I learned that you gotta anneal the brass in order to move the brass around that much. Same with my 11X60R, youve got to anneal the cases to load it.
 
Talking about moving shoulder on this forum used to be a sin. Not any more? Liberty!

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
Shoulder

Have you ever fireformed brass?

As an example, I have made 300 Bellm Steward (akin to a .300 Savage) from .444 Marlin brass with one die pass and one fire forming using COW.
 
I did my share of experimentation on reforming casings, mostly from 30-06 brass that I have ample supply of. It is really not that hard to do. But I have to say it is a bit of advanced level handloading. One may want to wait till he has become experienced before rushing into this unknown waters prematurely. There are tricky areas that require in-depth understanding. Taking proper steps, lubing, trimming, annealing, neck ream / turning, and even case body turning may be necessary for proper functioning and safety.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
According to the specs, you're moving the shoulder of a .303 case back a bit over a quarter inch. This is not a huge amount, can be done in one pass through the sizing die (use enough lube!!) and should not need annealing to do it.

Some case conversions, especially using thin walled parent cases do need annealing to prevent excessive case loss but not everything does.

I've made 7,7 Jap from .30-06 with zero issues without doing anything other than running them through the sizer die and trimming.

Just out of curiosity, why not just use .30-40 Krag brass to start with?

It's sometimes a bit scarce, but its not "unobtainium".
 
@ post 8 and 11

Where is Guffy? I believe he has stated that it is impossible in more than one thread, and he is the only reloader that... and many other thought provoking statements.
 
308Loader said:
@ post 8 and 11

Where is Guffy? I believe he has stated that it is impossible in more than one thread, and he is the only reloader that... and many other thought provoking statements.
Click to expand...


Haha. Well yes. Word games and semantics.
No one ever moves the shoulder. What they do is reform brass that was in the shoulder into the neck, and brass that was in the body into the new shoulder... that is located at a different datum.


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, CRPA member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / FPC / CCRKBA / GOA / NAGR / NRA-ILA contributor, USCCA member - Support your defenders!
 
Winds over water doesn't move it. But the wave moves.

Earthquakes under water doesn't move it. But the wave moves.
 
Although 300 Sav. brass is available, you can reform .308 Win. or 7.62 NATO brass back to 300 Sav. just by resizing it in the 300 Sav. FL resizing die and trimming off the excess brass. It's a pretty easy conversion with all the free brass I found lying around at the public range and with cast lead loads it last a lifetime.

KrVf4Jq.jpg


TqH6ST1.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top