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how far back do gun ownership records go?
- Thread starter longeyes
- Start date
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
"Yellow Sheets" are on file in a store for the duration of its existence as a business. It is my understanding that after ceasing business, yellow sheets go to BATF. How busily are they putting these millions of records into a computerized data base? I don't know.
Very few records were kept prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968. Manufacturers kept records of what guns were shipped to a purchaser--dealer or individual--but stores did not necessarily keep any records.
Hope this helps,
Art
Very few records were kept prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968. Manufacturers kept records of what guns were shipped to a purchaser--dealer or individual--but stores did not necessarily keep any records.
Hope this helps,
Art
JMBrowning
Moderator
Records
I am a gunsmith,but not a dealer.Most of my work is done through a good friend,who is a dealer.
The BATF visits his shop randomly-usually about every 3 months to check his firearms aquisition/disposition log.Interestingly enough,they also go through all of his 4473's and record any that they do not already have on record.
I am a gunsmith,but not a dealer.Most of my work is done through a good friend,who is a dealer.
The BATF visits his shop randomly-usually about every 3 months to check his firearms aquisition/disposition log.Interestingly enough,they also go through all of his 4473's and record any that they do not already have on record.
BATF record keeping skills
Yah, BATF keeps the records after a dealer closes, BUT we are talking about an agency that has the poorest record keeping in the country. As a gunsmith working for a class III dealer, my boss submitted paperwork for a full auto weapon that was in .223 caliber. On the paperwork, he put 5.56. Now, WE all know that it's the same caliber. The BATF kicked it back to him. When he called up and to ask why, he was told the caliber was "INCORRECT". He asked what the lady meant. "Well, this is obviously a .223 caliber weapon and you wrote 5.56. That's the WRONG CALIBER!" My boss then spent the next ten minutes on the phone with this lady, patiently explaining that 5.56 and .223 were the same caliber. He finally had her go get her supervisor. At least that person DID KNOW they were the same caliber. The only problem was, this little snafu added six weeks to the wait the persons wait. After another three months, the paperwork FINALLY was approved. So, I guess waiting four and a half months isn't too long to wait for a full auto weapon. The thing that bugs me is HOW STUPID most of the clerks are at BATF. That says NOTHING of the thousands of full auto records at the BATF that have been lost or thrown away over the years. What a cluster ****!!! Those people couldn't find their @ss holes with a mirror, a flashlight, both hands and written directions. So, while the BATF MAY HAVE your firearm on record, the chances are that they may OR may not be able to access them.
Yah, BATF keeps the records after a dealer closes, BUT we are talking about an agency that has the poorest record keeping in the country. As a gunsmith working for a class III dealer, my boss submitted paperwork for a full auto weapon that was in .223 caliber. On the paperwork, he put 5.56. Now, WE all know that it's the same caliber. The BATF kicked it back to him. When he called up and to ask why, he was told the caliber was "INCORRECT". He asked what the lady meant. "Well, this is obviously a .223 caliber weapon and you wrote 5.56. That's the WRONG CALIBER!" My boss then spent the next ten minutes on the phone with this lady, patiently explaining that 5.56 and .223 were the same caliber. He finally had her go get her supervisor. At least that person DID KNOW they were the same caliber. The only problem was, this little snafu added six weeks to the wait the persons wait. After another three months, the paperwork FINALLY was approved. So, I guess waiting four and a half months isn't too long to wait for a full auto weapon. The thing that bugs me is HOW STUPID most of the clerks are at BATF. That says NOTHING of the thousands of full auto records at the BATF that have been lost or thrown away over the years. What a cluster ****!!! Those people couldn't find their @ss holes with a mirror, a flashlight, both hands and written directions. So, while the BATF MAY HAVE your firearm on record, the chances are that they may OR may not be able to access them.
Rumors only from a few yrs.
1-warehouses full of rotting records(4473s)
2-dealers going out of business that are sending there 4473 in to BATF urine soaked.I was told it increase the speed of decomposision and I guess the smell would allso get quite bad.Imagins a warehouse full of urine soaked 4473s.Now that would be a sight not to mention smell.
1-warehouses full of rotting records(4473s)
2-dealers going out of business that are sending there 4473 in to BATF urine soaked.I was told it increase the speed of decomposision and I guess the smell would allso get quite bad.Imagins a warehouse full of urine soaked 4473s.Now that would be a sight not to mention smell.
Jeff Thomas
New member
Databases are management headaches ...
There is another issue ... maintenance of all this data.
Think about how complicated this is, currently. They may know, in various ways, who has bought what gun(s) over the years. However, there are changes in address, people die, people get married and change their names, guns are stolen and sold, guns are purchased privately, etc., etc.
Clearly, various people and groups want to help the BATF improve their recordkeeping ... including the MMM, NEA, Handgun Control, etc. But, until they spend billions, change the laws and force everyone to comply, their data is spotty. Look at the current mess in Candada, and as I recall, they have only 1% the number of guns found in the U.S.
The feds still have more data than they should, but I'd wager that BATF agents would admit privately that their databases are pretty mediocre. Right now, I think the threat is usually overstated.
Regards from AZ
There is another issue ... maintenance of all this data.
Think about how complicated this is, currently. They may know, in various ways, who has bought what gun(s) over the years. However, there are changes in address, people die, people get married and change their names, guns are stolen and sold, guns are purchased privately, etc., etc.
Clearly, various people and groups want to help the BATF improve their recordkeeping ... including the MMM, NEA, Handgun Control, etc. But, until they spend billions, change the laws and force everyone to comply, their data is spotty. Look at the current mess in Candada, and as I recall, they have only 1% the number of guns found in the U.S.
The feds still have more data than they should, but I'd wager that BATF agents would admit privately that their databases are pretty mediocre. Right now, I think the threat is usually overstated.
Regards from AZ