How exactly does a "Witness" clone a CZ?

G

Gwinnydapooh

Retired Screen Name
Basically, what I mean here is, how exact are the outside dimensions? I can't seem to handle a CZ in the area, but there are Witnesses in abundance. Can I safely assume that a CZ will feel just like the Witness, only with better fit and finish?

Also, what is customer service like from CZ? Do they have facilities besides marketing in the US? I've heard EAA doesn't do such a great job.
Thanks!
 
CZ-USA does a good job with their parts department. You really need to ask for Mike because he seems to be the only knowledgeable person that answers phones. I've ordered quite a few parts and they've been very reasonably priced and quick in shipment. The only drawback is that they don't accept credit card orders yet.

The Witness has some minor dimensional changes from the CZ that are significant enough that individual parts may not interchange. For example, the hammer's main spring strut hole and disconnector hole are larger than on the CZ. Magazine interchangeability is also suspect.
 
Witness magazines have the magazine catch hole in a different place. Witness mags will not work in a CZ without having the correct hole machined. Definitely buy a CZ over a Witness any day. Sure factory CZ mags will be more expensive and harder to find but afterfactory high cap CZ mags can be had for $10 each and they work perfectly. You will notice that the bullets will rattle abit in the afterfactory mags(not so w/ factory mags). If you get the CZ do not buy Pachmyer rubber grips because the cause the mag to hang up. Definitely go with Hogue grips if you are gonna replace the factory CZ grips. Hope this helps -ddt
 
It helps a great deal, convincing me of what I figured from reading this forum. Thanks guys!

But I'd still like to know how well the Witness mimics the feel, balance, heft, etc. of the CZ. I'm asking because if a CZ really feels just like a Witness I could order one without handling it with no reservations. I just don't see finding a CZ around here anytime soon. Love the way the Witness feels in the hand but I'd hate to pass on the CZ quality when the price difference isn't that much.

Thanks!
 
Gwinn,

I have both the Witness 9mm Steel Wonderfinish and the CZ75B. In my opinion, my Witness is every bit the pistol the CZ is. I feel the fit, finish, and quality cannot be discerned between the two. Carefully pick your weapon, because I have seen shabby, ill fitting examples of both the CZ and the Witness. The feel is almost identical, so you don't have to worry about that. I feel the Witness has a better trigger, and the finish will hold up longer. What it all boils down to is if you want the original or not and do you want a full length guide rod or not.

Bottom line? I would buy a Witness that felt tight and looked good rather than buy (order) a CZ that I couldn't inspect first.
 
Thanks Mylhouse. I'm not too worried about the full-length guide rod. Good thing because I'm not sure which one has it. :o

I don't have to worry about this anytime soon. But if I see a real deal on a Witness that looks like it's a good one, I'll keep it in mind. Thanks again.
 
Thanks, Jeff! I don't know when we'd have a chance to get together for something like that but if we do I'll bring Melissa. Maybe Sandy too!
 
The Witness if a clone of the second generation of CZ75s, before CZ changed the back strap configuration and trigger guard shape. Tanfoglio did extend the tang significantly, however. Try searching the Web for pictures of older model CZ75s and compare these to a Tanfoglio and you'll see what I mean.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
Thanks Tecolote, I didn't even know the backstrap had been changed. I'll have to handle lots of guns indeed. Poor me.
:)
It sounds like I may end up with a Witness in the end after all. I really like that large tang, because I did notice the potential for hammer bite on mil-spec 1911s and hi-powers. The CZ tang looks plenty large enough itself but I gotta find one to handle to know for sure. Might have to swallow the pride and go back to the "snooty" gunshop.
 
My TZ75 will outshoot my CZ75 any day of the week. I let ShallCarry try it and he could not believe how well my TZ75 shot and couldn't stop talking about its unaltered D/A and S/A trigger. I must have got a good one. Regards, Richard.
 
Gwinny, don't worry about hammer bite on the CZ 75B. I have one and I don't have any problem, and I get bite every shot with a Highpower.
 
Tecolote-
Q: Is the TZ75 made by Tanfoglio or FIE?
A: Yes, both. FIE and Excam (EA75) had versions of the CZ and so did Action Arms as the AT84 and AT88. EAA has the Witness. All frames and slides of all the guns are cast in Itay at Tanfoglio.
 
Don't buy the witness instead of a cz-75. It may look and feel the same but you can't see or feel inferior heat treatment and that is a problem with the witness. Unfortunately Mylhouse dosn't have x-ray eyes and thats what he would need to say that there is no differance. As for a tz-75, that is a sig clone so why even mention it here. The cz-75 is polymer coated over a parkerized finish better than the witness wonderfinish anyday if you want corosion resistance. The cz-75 is a world famous pistol the witness is a clone and that says it all in my book. Clones are only good if your cloning Cameron Diaz. Otherwise go for the real thing, you won't be sorry,especailly for the money. ddt
 
I wouldn't discount Tanfoglio pistols outright. Many ISPC shooters in the US and Europe use them extensively, and if anybody shoots plenty its those characters.

One of my buddies has put about 5,000 rounds of reload through his Tanfoglio Compact without a single problem.

I think CZ has better quality control, but I don't think they make a substantially better product.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
ddt,

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. First of all, the TZ75 is NOT a Sig clone, it was made by Tanfoglio several years ago and looks exactly like the Witness of today. The Wonderfinish is an extremely corrosion resistant chrome finish that is wholeheartedly tougher and better against holster wear than the CZ's finish. The CZ is a fabulous gun, but don't flap your gums about how much better it is just because it is "the original". I'd take a Kimber, Les Baer, Wilson, etc, anyday over an "original" Colt 1911.
 
ddt4free-- are you sure that the TZ-75 is a Sig clone? I own a CZ-75B and just handled a TZ-75 at a pawn shop yesterday. It was marked as "TZ-75" and was for all intents and purposes the same shape and width as my 1996 CZ-75. In fact, the fit and finish were every bit as good as my CZ. The gun had walnut grips and the back strap had a bit more significant curve to it but otherwise the feel was exactly the same as the CZ.

I have never been a fan of Witness' Wonderfinish (to me it just looks like somebody forgot to wipe off the cosmoline protectant for the trip across the ocean), and as far as the two guns go, having held the Witness next to the CZ when I was trying to decide which one to buy last year, there was hands down no comparison between the Witness and the CZ--I bought the CZ without a second's hesitation.

Had the choice been between the CZ and the TZ that I held yesterday, I don't think the decision would have been nearly as clearly cut.

I bought the CZ and a year later am completely thrilled with the gun--it's my favorite range gun. Accurate, easy re-coil, never jams, great weight, durable finish.



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Triggers exist to be pulled... again and again.
 
I have two Witness' in my collection. I was turned on to them by a good friend and excellent gunsmith who carries a Witness 45 every day.. has for years.

I have heard trouble in the past about a cracking slide or two.. but every major manufacturer I know of has had slides crack in one design or another.. they fix the problem and move on.

I have had my full size Witness 10mm for over a year and never had a probelm. They do need aftemarket sights, though... IMHO.

To disparage the Witness simply because it is a copy is rather immature. As noted above, the best 1911s are not Colts, nor are the best ARs....

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-Essayons
 
Mylhouse, I apologize. I swore I saw some South African made SIG clones sold as tz-75's. If anyone knows what I have seen and what it is really called I would like to know. Swear I saw them Though. Sorry Mylhouse. ddt
 
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