How Effective are Pistol Caliber Carbines? (article)

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Andrew Wiggin

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An article I wrote regarding PCC effectiveness. As always, I'd really like to hear whatever criticism you have to offer. Thanks.


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Does size really matter? Is longer better? No, not that. Get your mind out of the gutter and read the title again. We’re still talking about guns, here.

In a recent article, we detailed some of the advantages to using a pistol caliber carbine in the same caliber as your carry pistol for home defense. In this article, we’d like to take a detailed look at what effect a longer barrel has on terminal performance. Does the longer barrel really make the cartridge more powerful, or is a pistol caliber carbine little more than a handgun with a stock when it comes to its potential to cause tissue disruption?

To be sure, the longer sight radius, optic mounting options, and the presence of a stock still offer substantial advantages over a pistol and the low recoil of a pistol caliber carbine still makes it really easy to shoot well, no matter what the terminal performance is.

Does that longer barrel really mean higher velocity, though? If it does produce higher velocity, is that necessarily a good thing?
Click to expand...


The rest is here, if you're interested.
 
I like pistol caliber carbines and they do extend the range of a pistol cartridge. Though I don't own any at the moment, if I could find a Ruger Deerfield or Marlin Camp carbine at a reasonable price I'd snatch one up. Right now my only carbine is an old Universal M1, and I've been tempted to pick up a Ruger Blackhawk to match.
 
Kind of depends on what you plan on doing with one. Certainly isn't a new idea. As I recall, all early lever actions were chambered in revolver cartridges, starting with the .44 Rimfire, for the same reason. However, using a rifle in an urban setting isn't exactly a good idea. Even with a revolver cartridge.
"...We’re still talking about guns, here..." Never heard the old Army song, "This is my rifle. This is my gun."? snicker.
 
I would love a levergun in .44magnum. I'm my opinion however pistol caliber carbines are almost useless these days. Except in states such as mine that don't allow the use of high powered rifles for hunting. My Russian ak weighs about 6 or 7 pounds, holds 10-30+ rounds and can penetrate a mans torso beyond 400yds. It is such a handy little thing. Accurate too. I guess guns like these are the modern equivalent of PCC's. Light weight, low power (compared to REAL rifles) low recoil, but EXTREMELY handy
 
The key to success, at least with the magnum carbines, is bullet construction.
You need one that won't expand or disintegrate too much at higher velocities.

With the right bullet, mated to the right powder & caliber, you can get quite a boost.
The .357 with a good 180-grain JHP or hardcast lead bullet is an example.
A 110 JHP in that caliber is a poor choice on anything but varmints.
Denis
 
How strong is your action and how big the case?

Cartridge cases with lots of capacity mated to a strong action really opens up potential. .45 colt loaded to standard pressure in a SAA is good for a 250 grain bullet at 800 fps.
Load for a Winchester '92 action and you can move a 350 grain out the barrel at 1,500 fps.
The .357 is another case that really has potential for this treatment.
 
The 44 Henry rimfire as well as the 44 W.C.F., 38 W.C.F., and 32 W.C.F., are all rifle cartridges. The fact that Colt was able to adapt them to their revolvers came later. It was probably mere luck that they would be suitable to the revolver and not part of the original plan as the 1873 Winchester evolved from the 1866 model, which evolved from the Henry rifle.
A typical Marlin 44 magnum or 45 colt carbine will compete very well with a similar 30-30 at 100 yards or so. After that, the flatter trajectory of the 30-30 gives it an advantage. I have read that the vast majority of deer harvested are taken inside of 100 yards. My limited experience would concur.

The article, however, was about home defense, not deer hunting; and focused on the 357 magnum cartridge. Since that scenario has never happened to me, I will limit my comments. The carbine will have a substantial advantage beyond 25 yards that increases the further out you go. 100 yard home defense, anyone?
 
I think they are great for home defense, especially for; DARE I SAY.....women!!! especially recoil shy and sound shy. they are very quiet compared to a pistol and obviously have significantly less recoil. 38spl out of a lever is darn near quiet as a .22. my wife loves both her 9mm carbine and the lever and she feels very competent with both.
 
The 44 magnum competes favorably with the 30-30 out to one hundred yards? I guess sectional density is unimportant.
 
I don't care.

I love plinking with my Ruger PC9, and you can't have it!

Almost every time I go to the range, I end up in a nice conversation that starts with "Hey, what is that you are shooting?".

Accurate to 75 yds. Torso only at 100+ yards, but it was designed for close work.
 
Have a Marlin 44 16 inch w/porting. Using a mid level 180 jhp at 1500 fps, both my 80 plus mother and her octarian boy toy could readily shoot
accurately with it to 15 yards in under 10 rounds a piece.

At least one excellent use is self defense firearm for those non- regular recoil sensitive shooters. And yes you can up the power quite a bit. Comparing to pistol velocity's, usually an increase of about 300 fps for 357, 44 mag and 45 Lc.
 
I enjoyed my HiPoint 9mm, until it kept breaking.

Fast forward a few years and I picked up a CX4 last spring. It's light, easy to handle and control, has recoil similar to my AR (ie light), shoots a caliber I can cheaply and easily reload for, won't beat up steel targets and I can even use it at indoor ranges.

My humble lead reloads gain 200fps out of the longer barrel. I wouldn't hesitate to use it for HD if need be. I also have no problems hitting a 12" steel target at 100 yards standing.

And for those that say 'it has no purpose', isn't having a fun gun at the range purpose enough? Does everything need to be used for hunting or SD?:rolleyes:
 
I've got a Winchester 94 (modern) in. 44 magnum. Its a backup, to the backup, to the backup.

Seriously, they can be cool, but with their roots in the 19th century, there are more oractical choices no matter what the task. I bought mine to extend the practicalness of my. 44 ammo, in the event my assault rifle became mission-non-capable, for whatever reason.

Now I got 9 assault rifles. Go figure.:D
 
I don't know, a pistol caliber carbine in an urban setting??? What would you use, what would you use.

I know one of these "Hi-Point 4095"



Jim
 
There are valid arguments for pistol-caliber carbines, but when it comes to hunting, I never saw the point of carrying a big gun with the power of a little gun. Of course some folks tell me that a .44 Magnum carbine has more power than a .30-30 or .30-'06. Wishful thinking, there, folks.

Jim
 
A .30-30, yes.

There are some HAWT Buff Bore .44s that can get HIGH #s out of a carbine.

Plenty o' thump. And a lil bigger than .30. :cool:
 
Well, you can't use 300 grain bullets in a 30-30. And, a 44 magnum won't shoot as flat as a 30-30. But out to 100 yards, trajectory isn't a big issue. Whithin that range, yes, I believe, the 44 magnum easily matches the 30-30 in, "power". Choice of bullets certainly matters. Also, a 20" barreled carbine holds more rounds in 44 than a 30-30 does. I never said that a 44 magnum/45 Colt carbine will match a 30-'06....
But this was about something else....
Again, having never even pointed a firearm at another person, much less defended my home from, "bad guys", I would only be guessing about this subject. Like I guess a 30 M1 carbine might be a great choice. Too much power might mean too much recoil. We're not talking about moose hunting, right? If it's just burglars, I, guess, again, a 22 rimfire carbine is as good as anything.
 
I think these things are neat. I like the idea of having less types of ammo.

The thing is...what true use do i get out of these tools?

I would use .40S&W (that is my current pistol firearm caliber)


I have .223 and 30-06 as my rifle choice. Where does a .40S&W give me coverage that I am missing?
 
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