How does a .38 round fit in a .357 hole?

M

maxinquaye

New member
Forgive my ignorance, but I have not been shooting long, and don't shoot revovers at all (Don't like their balance - too front heavy).

Anyway, I have seen lot of info about people shooting .38 rounds in a .357. Also about .410 rounds in a .45 derringer.

Now, from my understanding, caliber is the measurement of the round from one side to the other, i.e. .50 is 1/2 inch across.

So how the heck are you stuffing something 39/100'ths of an inch into a hole which is only 357/1000's across.

?
 
The bullet used in the .38 Spl is actually .357 diameter. That's how the .357 magnum got its name...it was basically a more powerful .38 Spl, made longer so it wouldn't fit in the older, weaker guns.
 
As to why the .38 is called a .38 instead of a .357 Special, I remember reading that one of the rounds it developed from used a heeled bullet, similar to what we see today in the .22LR. That is, the part of the bullet that fit into the case was of a smaller diameter than the part of the bullet that grabbed the rifling. I accepted this explaination myself but perhaps other have a better story.
 
My understanding is the same as yours...the use of an "inside" lubed bullet instead of an "outside" lubed bullet, one heeled like a .22 rimfire, one not. Perhaps someone else can explain which is which, but one is closer to .38 caliber than the other. I think this actually goes back to the .38 S&W and .38 Colt cartridges. (Of course, this doesn't explain a .38-40 as actually being a .40-40!)
 
I believe that the diameter of a .38 special is actually .355" and what's 2/1000 of an inch among friends ;)
 
The .38 Special is .357 in diameter, the 9mm is .355.

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Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war.
 
The 357 Magnum case is approximately .12" longer than the 38 Special. The actual bullet diameters are .357" for jacketed and .358" for lead bullets in either cartridge.

The 357 SIG autopistol cartridge is .355" actual diameter (the same as the 9mm Parabellum and 380ACP).
 
Now if you want to get really confused [like me] start looking at british cartridges like the 450/400 or is it 400/450.

The name of a cartridge is just that a name. Sometimes it is descriptive and sometimes it isn't.

The 44 special can be used in 44 magnums also. And the 44 Russian [modern 44 russian I would not recomend old 44 russian ammo to be used unless you know what your doing] can be used in both 44 specials and magnums.

I believe 44 Russian is being made again for the Cowboy shooting events and if your looking for a mild load for a 44 that would work.
 
Case diameter of .38spec and .357mag runs from .379" to .380" depending on the ref. Kicker in the game is the older .38S&W runs around .386 to .387 in my books and is also called the Colt New Police. 9mm Luger is shown as .380 at case mouth (tapered case, wont go all the way in .38spec/.357 chamber).

I show nominal bullet diameters as .359 for the .38spec and .357mag. .361 for the .38S&W and .3555 for the 9mm Luger. Most bullet suppliers have .356/.357 for the rimmed and .355 for the Luger.

Back in the late 60s and 70s I did a lot of experimental loads for assorted agencies. By slugging bbls it was determined that bore diameter of same model guns within a caliber family varied more than the specs for the different families. IE some .357s were as large as .360 and others were as tight as .354. Same spread for the others. That is one very good reason to slug the bore of a particular gun before using loads that are toward the hot end of the spectrum. Same goes for searching for the most accurate load for a given gun.

Maby the term .38 was used cause the case was sorta about .38" and we got hung up on it. I am old but wasn't around when the 9mm Luger and .38spec came out in 1902.

Sam...my favorite 9mm is the 9X32R
 
Sam,

I note with some skepticism your denial of being around when the .38 Special and 9mm Parabellum (what a beautiful name for a cartridge) were young. Is slugging a barrel done by dropping spheres of increasing diameter through until one gets stuck?

Thanks as always,

Ledbetter
 
Slugging a barrel is done by just punching a large soft lead through and then miking it afterwards.
Not only barrels, but on revolvers the cylinder mouth has to be taken in to account to get top accuracy.
Some ten years ago I called LBT Bullets (no longer in business) to order some bullets for a .445 Supermag. I talked to Vernal Smith, the owner. He wouldn't sell me bullets until I miked both the barrel and cylinder mouths. Apparently, these can vary quite a bit and Vernal had it all worked out and would only sell you bullets sized just right for your revolver.
Vernals work was probably wasted on me since I can't shoot M.O.B (Minute Of Beercan) on my best day with a handgun, still, it was interesting to hear his theories on all this.





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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Keith....good point re cylinder mouth size. Friend of mine just had to open up his newish .41mag to get it to stop leading.

Miking the slugs from bbls with odd number of groves gets a bit ticklish. We were slugging a lot of bbls and fastest for us was to bore a series of precision holes in some inch thick scrap stock. Flintstones go-no go guage. Holes were in half thou increments.

Checking the cylinder mouth was crude but effective, just shove a bullet in by hand, light pressure seemed bout right.

Sam
 
Wow, turns out this is a lot more interesting and complex then I thought. Well, I certainly don't feel so dumb now :D

Thanks everyone for all your help. As always, for the straight dope, TFL's the only place to be :) :) :)
 
Don't let Sam kid you.He was in on the devolopment of both rounds.
Do you know what parrabellum means traslated into english? Not as pretty.It means "for war"

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Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
 
To further muddy the waters , the .380 is also referred to as 9x17mm. I believe it uses the same diameter slug as the 9mm Parabellum (9x19). The Makarov round is 9x18 but is actually .364 caliber rather than .355 caliber.
Trust the Russians to be difficult! :D

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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 
What do you mean by milking? I've seen the sluuging kit in the catalogs, whick is a bunch of different sizes of lead slugs and a wodden rod t opoke em through with.
 
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