how do you work up loads.

S

Shadow9mm

New member
I am roadblocked at how to work up a load properly. basically here is where I am stuck. I understand ladder testing. And before i really get going I need to work up a max load. That said each max load will have to be done with each powder and bullet combination, at different seating depths. For example, for one powder, running max pressure testing, 10 powder loads (1 bullet each .02g increments for powder), with 5 different bullets at 5 seating depths that's 250 possible combinations of max pressure for each load. Thats a LOT of testing to find the max load. after than you run back to testing each round in 3rnd groups at different seating depths with 0.2g powder charge changes which comes out to 750rnds. At this point you have 1000rnds through the barrel.... and a lot of time and energy spent and you will probably have a reasonable ammount of throat erosion to effect the work you just did. what am I missing....

update: Loading for AR in .223 currently (chamber is 223 wylde)
 
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I am no expert. Your method looks more complicated than what I do. I will start a new load with the COL that puts the bullet ogive 0.025" off the lands. Then start about 10% below max book load and work up in powder charge wt. Usually, I only load 1 or 2 rounds with the lightest charge, and then add a few tenths of a grain and make 3 of those etc. Then, start firing the lightest load and work up in powder weight. Examine the case after each round looking for overpressure signs. After the best load is determined (best 3 shot group) then work on that load adjusting the COL to see find the best distance off the lands.

I almost always just pick a bullet that should satisfy my need and go with that for a good test. If it doesn't workout to my standards, the I will try another powder or another bullet. On my 22-250, I rebarreled it about a year ago. The 53 Hornady v-Max was the round that interest me, and I wanted to use the same powder that my 222 Remington and .204 Ruger were using so I can buy powder in bulk. Did what I described, and by the end of that test it turned out that I had a good load---maybe not the best, but good enough for me. Has worked out good for me and bad for prairie dogs.
 
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For rifle I use 4 round groups. Cases are all same length and weight and preferably once fired or new. I also group my bullets by weight by the nearest .1 grain. I take the powder spread and divide it out for 4 or 5 groups min to max powder load depending on the spread. Rifle is alway more of a pain figuring the OAL to keep it off the lands but also work with the magazine. Once I get a bullet dialed in with a powder I rarely change it.

For pistol I use new or once fired cases. I weigh my bullets to get a grouping of the same weight and typically use a .2 or .3 grain increment for min to max with a 6 to 8 bullet group.I may fine tune with .1 gr powder difference or COAL changes.
 
All of my best loads have been borrowed from others. No need to reinvent the wheel. I won't blindly pick a load recommended to me or that I find on the internet. But if you consistently read and hear that X amount of Y powder gives good results in 308 with 150 gr bullets chances are good that the load, or one very similar to that, will work well in my rifle too.

I confirm the load is actually listed in a loading manual before doing anything. Then I load 5 rounds with a mid level powder charge. I load 5 more at .5gr increments up to a max listed load. I usually find best accuracy at max or .5gr below max. No need to worry about increments smaller than .5 gr.

OAL length is determined by magazine length. I load them as long as possible to fit in the magazine and chamber without the bullet hitting the lands. In very few cases will you ever get better accuracy by seating deeper. And unless you want to have a single shot you can't load them any longer. There are a few bullets that shoot better seated deeper, but if you're asking the right questions you'll already know that before you start loading.

I've always found MOA or better is pretty easy to get without having to load more than 15 or so rounds.
 
Rifles

If your going to run a ladder test to find your max pressure . Load all rounds to your max COAL . Reason for this is the closer you get to the lands the higher your pressure is likely to be at a given load . Also when ever you do find a load and you want to fine tune it by adjusting seating depth . You only have one way to go and that's backing off the lands resulting in less pressure .

Now run the ladder test moving up in 1% increments of max charge . So in general for 223 it's .25gr or .3 gr , 308 .4gr , 30-06 .5gr etc

That's my ladder test method .

There's the OCW method by Dan Newberry http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-instructions/4529817134

And then there's the traditional way of testing

Reduce your start charge by 10% to 12% from max . Work your way back up to max charge in increments of .5gr by loading 5 rounds of each charge until you are at max published charge . Test each 5 round group at a distance of at least 100yds . This method will almost always show one of those charges being better then the rest .

None of these methods should take more then 50rds to find a load . In some cases it will be less and on occasion it may take a few more .

Handguns

I run the traditional type test but instead of .5gr increments I load .1gr increments .
 
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ok, so load max OAL then test for max load. After that I will try and go for seating depth to find what the rifle prefers and i can seat all bullets to that depth after that. After that its just just testing for preferred powder charge.... I was really over complicating things, thanks.
 
I'm a newbie at this too. Right or wrong, this is what I'm doing;

Since all of my rifles are for hunting, I use the OAL that my magazine will allow(with the exception of my tube mag Win 94)

I start at .5 above min, work at .5 increments, load as many rounds that will fit in the magazine(that way I know that they will cycle) and work up to .5 below max.

I use the 50yrd range and targets that are easy to see. I also let the barrel cool between strings.

Then I look at the targets and compare the load to the group, find the tightest one. I then work above and below that load by .2 increments to dial it in.

This method has all of my rifles shooting MOA or sub MOA at 100yds.

I do the same thing for my .357/.44 mag hunting handguns.

For my carry handguns and plinking, honestly, I use tried and true loads, after verification of data, that others suggest!

If it cycles my semi and is accurate I keep it, if not I throw it out of the book and try another. I normally don't shoot past 7yrds with a SD handgun anyway.
 
I first start them off with 100 sit ups followed by two dozen jumping jacks and finally 20 press lifts of 150 lbs.... (LOL)

That's the work up for my loads.

Not!!

At this point you have 1000rnds through the barrel.... and a lot of time and energy spent and you will probably have a reasonable amount of throat erosion to effect the work you just did. what am I missing....
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You are over working that poor rifle, I would stop at the 100 sit ups.

But, seriously, no more than 25 or 30 rounds are needed to work up a load.

I start at mid point between min and max load data and increase each step by 0.2 grains (any thing less will give non measurable results). As to OAL that is determined prior to my starting to load. I use a Hornady L-N-L oal gauge to find the max OAL of the chamber/bullet combo and subtract 0.05 from that to give the bullet a jump to the lands. But you are talking about an AR, so the process is a bit different. In most cases, I use just the published OAL from the load data I am using, No need to reinvent the wheel.
And of course you will be limited to the mag length, usually 2.260 ( I like to use 2.250). But for a 55 grain bullet it will be an OAL of 2.200.

With that out of the way, as I said I will start at "Mid Point" between min and max load data and make up five (5) rounds of each powder load, just to test for functionality ( does the rifle cycle properly, and how far are the cases thrown?) If 25 feet away then too hot, if right next to my foot then too soft.

These all are aimed shots for I will get an idea as to how well they preform as to accuracy. Once, I have my best load out of these 25 rounds, I will make up another 50 to tune in my scope and get a feel for the trigger pull.

All in all you should not need more than 25 to 30 rounds to get your load just the way you want it.

So skip the extra bench presses you might be tempted to put your loads through.

Remember, max loads are not the most accurate ones.

Stay safe.
Jim
 
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I like reloading and I'm in no hurry to find a "perfect" load. I find a bullet I want to try (after I research what I'm gonna shoot at), then research the powder I think is "best" for my situation, and load some at the starting load in my manual(s). I'll load up a few because I ain't the world's greatest shot and more shots tend to reduce the results from my bad shootin'. Two magazines full for my semi-auto pistols and semi-auto rifles, two cylinders full for my revolvers, and mebbe 8 or 10 for my bolt guns. This way I get a good representation of the load. If necessary, I increase the charge .2 to .5 gr depending on the powder, case, and gun. I'll continue this way until a load looks promising, then tweek it by .2-.3 gr until the load is "good". Then I'll change another component, bullets being first, then OAL, then primers. If I have another powder I want to try I'll start all over again.

If this sounds like too much work, or a waste of components, sorry, but I like researching a load, reloading, shooting, recording and analyzing the results, so no components are "wasted" and neither is my time. If I were to find that "perfect' load in 3 or 4 tries, then what? :(...
 
WOW.... Soooo much shooting....

I usually do several sets of 3 of a middle of the road powder load, and experiment with seating depth first.
3 Touching lands
3 0.005" off of the lands
3 0.015" off of the lands
3 0.030" off of the lands.

When I find which groups best, I take that COAL, and start my powder ladder test going in .3gr increments, with the target pushed back to 150-200 yards.

Usually end up with about 20 shots or so...
 
WOW.... Soooo much shooting....
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Yep, that's what it's all about! If one doesn't like to shoot alot, buy factory ammo. If one doesn't like reloading (or is in a hurry), buy factory ammo...:D
 
I'm shooting an 8 shot revolver. I load up 16 bullets for each load I want to test. First 8 for Chonograph, Second 8 for group testing. After I find that right load I'm looking for I don't change a thing unless I decide to try a different bullet.
 
Start with the bullet. Hunting something? Maybe a soft point. Just want tight groups on paper? Some sort of match bullet.

Pick an available powder that you have load data for.

Start with minimum loads and work up in 4 or 5 round groups at .5gr increments.

In an AR, your magazine will probably limit COAL before you hit the lands (double check this, of course), so seat at the max COAL that will fit in your mag.

Then shoot. If you don't get any results that you like, start changing stuff one thing at a time and repeat.
 
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