How do you shoot groups?

T

taco

New member
Is there is "correct" way of shooting for groups when testing accuracy of ammo or gun?

For years I been shooting all handguns at 25 yards and I would shoot 4 groups of 5 shot each using sandbags. For rifles I shoot 4 groups of 3 shots each at 100 yards again using sandbags to rest the forearm and butt of the rifle. I measure each group and eliminate the worst and use the 3 best groups to determine the "average".

Today, I was told bya fellow the correct way would be to shoot 3 groups of 6 shots with handgun or 3 groups of 4 shots with rifles and measure each group by using only the 5 closest shots (3 closest with rifle) and use all 3 group to determine the "average".

When I think about it this guy seems to make sense but is there THE correct way?
 
"How do you shoot groups?"

I aim for the center of the target. ;)

All kidding aside, for rifles I shoot a three round 100 yard group to find my zero (repeating as required to zero the rifle), then shoot a seven round group to establish my accuracy average. (I have found that a three round group fired three times will give me about the same average.)
For handguns I shoot a three round 25 yard group to regulate the sights, then shoot three five round groups for my accuracy average.

I would not take serious anyone trying to shoot a six round group and only counting the five closest to each other! You might try flying that past a jury after a shooting. "But your Honor, the innocent guy getting shot shouldn't count because the other five rounds all hit the bad guy!" :O

If you pop the cap, it counts!

------------------
Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

I hunt, therefore I am.

[This message has been edited by blades67 (edited October 26, 2000).]
 
Valid question.

First, we're stipulating that this is NOT field practice, but sight-in and accuracy testing of the rifle. For such purposes, every cheat should be made to take the human element out of it. Sandbags and a good bench are mandatory, and mechanical rests are not out of line.

Target selection is pretty important for my sight-in, inherent accuracy testing. For scoped rifles, I like to use sheets of typing paper on which I've placed 4 gorilla black large squares, all equi-distant from each other, about 1/2" apart, so that the eye sees them as one large black square with a white cross centered on it. I put the crosshairs in the white cross, and turn in my best groups.

For pistol, I tend to use my much-beloved paper plates, with either a single black dot on the center, or a solid black semicircle (flat side down) with a white notch rising from the center, in which to rest my front sight.

For rifle, I always shoot groups of 4. Rifle ammunition is expensive, and takes a while to load (most of mine is hand loaded), so any waste is to be avoided. If you shoot a group of 3, but throw one shot, it affects the whole group's center in a MAJOR way. But with 4-shot goups if you know you threw a shot, you call it, throw it out, and go with the remaining 3-shot group. A 4-shot group is economical and is 33% more informative than a 3-shot group. If I can replicate a 4 shot group the very next target I shoot at, then I trust the results and consider the matter settled. I used to do all of my accuracy testing at 100 yds, but after getting my Sendero, I found that 200 yds was more informative. Because of the terrain features at my range, 300 yards is doable, but difficult.

With pistol, I typically will shoot 5 or 6-shot groups. I almost ALWAYS do my accuracy testing for pistols from 25 yards, but that's probably mostly a result of my love of 10" paper plates as pistol targets for both speed drills and accuracy testing. (two staples and they're up. Any hit on a 10" cirle is equal to a kill shot. Anything other than a kill shot is a miss.) 50 yard testing is not uncommon, though, and is necessary, because most of my pistols are sighted for dead-on at 50. (though I've been giving some thought to dead-on at 75. It's only 1/2 high at 50, but is only a couple of inches low at 100. Nice compromise.)

Wow. Guess I was in the mood to type. Hope this helps.
 
I shoot benchrest...

I pull up in the truck (necessary item), haul out about 50 pounds of rests, sandbags, etc., and put them on the nice concrete bench. The rifle comes out, and goes on the rest and rear bag, and I run a few patches down it, just for grins.

Then during a cease fire, I go staple up a dozen or so targets, and plant wind indicators at 3-4 points between the bench and the target.

I then load rounds.

In go the earplugs, on go the muffs. If I'm working up a load, I wait until the wind indicators are all showing a consistent condition that looks like it'll either stick around, or come back around (the wind is often cyclic), and I'll fire a couple of foulers into the berm, and then fire three shot groups. I'm looking for where the rifle's groups close up to as close to no vertical dispersion as possible. I'll fire a group, then bump up a half-click of powder, then fire another, etc... When I find the sweet spot, I'll then try moving the bullet in and out of the case.

Benchrest aggregates are based on five targets, with five shots each. You do this at both 100 and 200 yards.

FWIW, at the NBRSA Nationals this year, Tony Boyer had a four-gun aggregate of around .240" to win. I hit something on the order of .400" or so, with three guns. My best group was .132", but I had a few big ones. Tony had no small ones, but he only had one group over .300.
 
Going into history for a moment: Once upon a time, the five-shot group was the "proper" test. The only reason I know of was the fact that most bolt-action rifles hold five rounds.

I haven't a clue if my own thinking affected anything, but somewhere in the 1950s it occurred to me that in hunting, a tight group for five shots is fairly unimportant. Two or three shots, close together, should be one or two shots more than necessary. So, I went to using three shot groups to test my rifles.

I dunno if cedar pollen carried my notions anywhere, but I've noticed a lot of folks seeming to accept my idea, insofar as hunting rifles are concerned...

To get back on thread a bit: If you can call a flyer--from your own shooting mistake--then ignore that shot as you measure the group's size (not talking competition, here). If you are truly confident that your sight picture was always uniform, and you have a flyer, then there is some minor problem with the gun or the ammo.

Again, the purpose of the particular rifle is what's important. A hunter, once he's determined that he will get three shots inside 1", should thereafter avoid the benchrest except for pure recreation. The time and money should be spent on developing skill in shooting in "impromptu" situations. Bambi doesn't pose in front of a benchrest.

FWIW, Art
 
Art, I beg to differ. On no less than two occassions when my Dad and I have been at the range, we have had deer saunter out of the brush and stand there. You'd think that all of the noise would have warned 'em off from the area.
And no...I didn't shoot at 'em. We waited until they moved off of the range.
(It would have been hard to strap Bambi to the front fender of the car.)

Later,
Justin
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top