How Do You Fire Your First Shot from Your CCW
- Thread starter chemcal
- Start date
Like at the range?
At the range I shoot a nice deliberate wall break if I can.
Under timed fake stress?
I tend to pull pretty hard straight through as the “stress” is upping adrenaline and lowering My IQ.
If I ever have to use it for real??
I will likely be yanking on that little lever thingy like I am going for the jackpot on a slot machine all the while screaming like a little girl....which we will just call my battle cry....as I am trying to find cover zigzagging to and fro ..... we will just call that a tactical retreat.
Hey I am a realist.
At the range I shoot a nice deliberate wall break if I can.
Under timed fake stress?
I tend to pull pretty hard straight through as the “stress” is upping adrenaline and lowering My IQ.
If I ever have to use it for real??
I will likely be yanking on that little lever thingy like I am going for the jackpot on a slot machine all the while screaming like a little girl....which we will just call my battle cry....as I am trying to find cover zigzagging to and fro ..... we will just call that a tactical retreat.
Hey I am a realist.
armednfree
New member
That would depend on the situation. In the majority off targeted attacks the person is on top of you before you can pull. Generally, and culturally, an Americans personal space is about 4 feet. Much more if there is only one or two people in the area. But that person can spring across any reasonable space before you can draw your weapon. The 21 foot rule comes from a test in which both parties knew the test was happening. You do not have that luxury.
So, what is likely to happen is that you are so close you have to use your off hand to distract, redirect, and make space while drawing with your good hand. Roll that from the holster and pound two into his lower body. Don't worry about all the center mass stuff, that comes later, but put rounds in him, anywhere in him.
Then you back out while covering him and glancing to the sides to see if any other threats are presented. Now you are extended on him and making as much distance as you can. If he is capable of chasing you and does so you then fire center mass, if not get away to safety.
So, what is likely to happen is that you are so close you have to use your off hand to distract, redirect, and make space while drawing with your good hand. Roll that from the holster and pound two into his lower body. Don't worry about all the center mass stuff, that comes later, but put rounds in him, anywhere in him.
Then you back out while covering him and glancing to the sides to see if any other threats are presented. Now you are extended on him and making as much distance as you can. If he is capable of chasing you and does so you then fire center mass, if not get away to safety.
The answer is neither one.
I was taught to pull the slack and be at the wall by the time my pistol goes from the ready to presentation.
At the same time I getting proper sight picture by picking up target, front sight, rear sight, back to front sight in clear focus. By the time the weapon is at presentation, I am on the front sight, at the wall, and the weapon discharges, trigger reset, second shot, reset, and follow thru.
No targets, pistol is moved slightly to clear my field of view, sector is checked, pistol comes back to ready position.
So it really a combination. I start the trigger pull as the pistol moves from ready but hold at the wall if my timing is off with sights. If I screw it up and the pistol discharges then my good stance means most of the time the round is on target within the bowling pin. It takes practice and most importantly muscle memory. Ideally, it all happens at the same time and in my years of experience, it certainly does work. When you have the muscle memory then you can just let the lizard brain do the right thing.
Stopping at the wall seems is great for practice if accuracy is the end goal. But without being able to adequately replicate a defensive shooting scenario for practice, I practice the safest way I am able, which is to pull all the way through once on target.
Adrenaline can do funky things, even to muscle memory.
Adrenaline can do funky things, even to muscle memory.
That would depend on a perceived threat level and distance. I practice a draw from concealed where I extend my shooting hand at the target and squeeze (or rather pull off) a shot ONE-HANDED, as quick as I can...this is at a silhouette target at from three to five yards to center mass. I'll do this usually 25 times per session.
This is the fastest with a striker auto or double action, BUT! I would have to be absolutely sure that my life, if alone, is actually being threatened which creates a decision dilemma. If at all possible I would run and hide first
.
A lot of shooters DON'T practice enough one handed and also on the move, on the run, behind cover, different positions, etc. In fact, I have often observed shooters at the range shoot a couple boxes of ammo standing straight, two-handed, like statues, either isosceles or weaver statues and that's it. Not realistic, given all the possibilities.
This is the fastest with a striker auto or double action, BUT! I would have to be absolutely sure that my life, if alone, is actually being threatened which creates a decision dilemma. If at all possible I would run and hide first
.A lot of shooters DON'T practice enough one handed and also on the move, on the run, behind cover, different positions, etc. In fact, I have often observed shooters at the range shoot a couple boxes of ammo standing straight, two-handed, like statues, either isosceles or weaver statues
and that's it. Not realistic, given all the possibilities."...The 21 foot rule comes from..." A very old study of police shootings, as I recall. Average distance was 21 feet. Which is 7 yards.
"...Stop at wall..." Except for the shooting games that have nothing whatever to do with CCW, you have absolutely no guarantee there will be a wall at which to stop. I think you're confusing something with something else. Dunno exactly what.
You don't need the upper case letters.
"...Stop at wall..." Except for the shooting games that have nothing whatever to do with CCW, you have absolutely no guarantee there will be a wall at which to stop. I think you're confusing something with something else. Dunno exactly what.
You don't need the upper case letters.
Which is why I train/practice with what works well for me/my conscience.
Ok I'm being informed, and I need that; the advise I'm getting is all over the place as to how to practice; ie "don't touch the trtigger until your on target or start taking up slack when you leave the holster. "Certified" instructors don't seem to be in agreement. Is there an authoritative reference to consult?
Which upper case letters?
Which upper case letters?
I tend to agree, whats the situation? I dont see that there is one answer.
At close range, its most likely going to be move, draw, and quickly shoot over the gun.
As the distances open up, its more focus on the front sight, and somewhere between a flash sight picture and a full deliberate focus on alignment.
And since we usually dont (hopefully) have to learn on OTJ, in the first encounter, the more stress of any kind you can induce into your practice, along with lots of repetition, to the point of no thought, the better off youre likely going to be.
One other thing too, I know this is a "gun" forum, and the answers are predominantly going to be solving things with "the gun", but there are also times the first response may not be your gun at all, and you may need other skills to get you there.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
My CCW is a 1911.chemcal said:
'Nuff said.
lee n. field
New member
I'm not sure I'd even think of it in those terms.
If I'm in that situation, "point and click" until the emergency isn't an emergency any more.
The OP makes it sound like an “either/or” proposition. Its not.
As described by Davidsog, the trigger slack is taken out during the presentation. That is a skill that must be ingrained through deliberate practice and training.
As the pistol is brought to bear the trigger slack is taken out, as the gun hits the end of that presentation and whatever sight alignment can be achieved under the circumstances, is achieved, the trigger is pressed thru the “wall” that is sear engagement... the shot breaks.
Some ultra high end shooters can shoot very well without getting the slack out and just slap through the trigger travel. Rob Leatham comes to mind. That guy is super human in his ability to hold the pistol rock steady against trigger “slap”. Most of us cant do that.
So, trigger prep or taking out the slack aids in fast AND accurate shooting.
As described by Davidsog, the trigger slack is taken out during the presentation. That is a skill that must be ingrained through deliberate practice and training.
As the pistol is brought to bear the trigger slack is taken out, as the gun hits the end of that presentation and whatever sight alignment can be achieved under the circumstances, is achieved, the trigger is pressed thru the “wall” that is sear engagement... the shot breaks.
Some ultra high end shooters can shoot very well without getting the slack out and just slap through the trigger travel. Rob Leatham comes to mind. That guy is super human in his ability to hold the pistol rock steady against trigger “slap”. Most of us cant do that.
So, trigger prep or taking out the slack aids in fast AND accurate shooting.
Unless you are very well practiced and calm under life-and-death pressure it is unlikely you will have both the presence of mind and the tactile sense to "stop at the wall" while under attack. Perhaps for a longer-range, defense of a third party type event, but even that would take impressive mental focus.
"21 foot rule" refers to the Tueller drill. It's almost always misinterpreted and misapplied by people who mention it. People try to draw a conclusion from the results and form a rule to govern their behavior or responses, but it is a demonstration that should inform our threat assessment and allow us to form a better response based on the circumstances.
Because this is the General Handgun forum, any handgun could be considered in the response, but "walls" are generally found on partially-pre-cocked striker-fired actions. I don't think single-actions like a 1911 have take-up and the sear is not normally described as a wall. Double-action revolvers and double-action automatics like the Kahr also do not have a wall.
For a double-action revolver, good technique is to keep the trigger finger moving all the way through the stroke and reset. The finger should not stop moving until past the reset on the return stroke. Here is Grant Cunningham explaining it https://youtu.be/rCv-noW5yzc
This does not apply to striker-actions. What I've learned about striker actions is to pull the trigger back to the stop. Hold it stopped there, and then reset and fire if necessary. This means not to reset the trigger unless you are firing again. The reason is the break from the reset is too light to hold it there with pressure safely, but it is faster and less disturbing of sight picture to access a follow up shot from the stop than it would be reset and let all the slack out and then have to take up the slack and pull through the break again.
Because this is the General Handgun forum, any handgun could be considered in the response, but "walls" are generally found on partially-pre-cocked striker-fired actions. I don't think single-actions like a 1911 have take-up and the sear is not normally described as a wall. Double-action revolvers and double-action automatics like the Kahr also do not have a wall.
For a double-action revolver, good technique is to keep the trigger finger moving all the way through the stroke and reset. The finger should not stop moving until past the reset on the return stroke. Here is Grant Cunningham explaining it https://youtu.be/rCv-noW5yzc
This does not apply to striker-actions. What I've learned about striker actions is to pull the trigger back to the stop. Hold it stopped there, and then reset and fire if necessary. This means not to reset the trigger unless you are firing again. The reason is the break from the reset is too light to hold it there with pressure safely, but it is faster and less disturbing of sight picture to access a follow up shot from the stop than it would be reset and let all the slack out and then have to take up the slack and pull through the break again.
"...Stop at wall..." Except for the shooting games that have nothing whatever to do with CCW, you have absolutely no guarantee there will be a wall at which to stop. I think you're confusing something with something else. Dunno exactly what.
BINGO, That pretty much sums it up. If you practice something too much, your reaction will always return to what you practiced which may not be the correct response.
#1: Have the gun
#2: Be able to fire the gun sort of accurately within a short time window
#3: Dont get wound up in "drills" cause not often is a violent confrontation like the drill
BINGO, That pretty much sums it up. If you practice something too much, your reaction will always return to what you practiced which may not be the correct response.
#1: Have the gun
#2: Be able to fire the gun sort of accurately within a short time window
#3: Dont get wound up in "drills" cause not often is a violent confrontation like the drill