How do you carry your 1911's?
- Thread starter nsf003
- Start date
lonegunman
New member
Condition 1 is the way to go.
Condition 3 is the second best way.
Condition 2 is the worst, by far.
Condition 3 is the second best way.
Condition 2 is the worst, by far.
Condition One: Round chambered, hammer cocked and safety on. (Cocked & Locked.)
Condition Two: Round chambered, hammer down and safety off. (You must cock the hammer to fire the gun.)
Condition Three: Chamber empty, hammer down and safety off. (You must rack the slide and chamber a round to fire the gun.)
Condition Two: Round chambered, hammer down and safety off. (You must cock the hammer to fire the gun.)
Condition Three: Chamber empty, hammer down and safety off. (You must rack the slide and chamber a round to fire the gun.)
Condition 1,"cocked and locked". round in the chamber, hammer back, thumb safety activated. by far the safest way to carry a loaded 1911 with a round in the chamber! and the way the gun was designed to be carried.
To the less experienced it seems scary because the hammer is back and there is a light trigger pull. However for the gun to fire three things must happen.
1) The thumb safety must be de-activated.
2) The grip safety must be depressed
3) The trigger must be tripped. To make the weapon ready to fire, you draw the pistol, (A good grip de-activates the grip safety) acquire your target and with your strong hand, de-activate the thumb safety, pull the trigger. Most experienced shooters practice placing their strong hand thumb over the thumb safety so this action becomes a natural fluid part of the presentation.
For all three of those things to happen accidentally at the very same time something very strange must be going on in your pants and I'm quite certain the average person would notice.
In contrast, lets compare this to a striker fired weapon such as the Glock. The Glock virtually has no safety so only one thing must happen for the gun to fire accidentally. Something must trip the trigger(thus de-activating the safety)
A double action revolver has exactly the same chances of an accidental discharge.
Condition 2, Round in the chamber hammer down, resting on the firing pin, safety off (the hammer must be cocked to activate the safety). In other words there is nothing to prevent the firing pin from being forced into the primer of the cartridge. (this excludes those designs that incorporate a firing pin safety device such as the Colt series 80's and the Kimber series II's) In my opinion not a safe way to carry a gun. The most dangerous way to carry a 1911.
To bring the gun into action you must draw and cock the hammer. Presumably while something extremely stressful is going on. This isn't as easy as it would be with a single action revolver, most likely there is a beavertail grip safety in the way effectively destroying any chances of a proper presentation grip. (In other words there's a good chance your going to die with a loaded gun in your hand)
Condition 3, empty chamber, hammer down, safety off. Some say this is a good way to carry a 1911 but I disagree. It is better than condition 2 but still a bad choice. You must draw and rack the slide, effectively destroying any chance of a proper presentation from the holster. There are those that practice with and have specially designed holsters to enable them to push down on the back strap charging the weapon immediatly before presentation but then you are presenting a cocked and locked pistol with no safety! This will most likely sweep part of your own body and I pray to God you don't have your finger on the trigger before you get to your target! Especially under stress.
please note I do not intend to start the Glock/1911 war all over again I merely used it as one of two examples.
To the less experienced it seems scary because the hammer is back and there is a light trigger pull. However for the gun to fire three things must happen.
1) The thumb safety must be de-activated.
2) The grip safety must be depressed
3) The trigger must be tripped. To make the weapon ready to fire, you draw the pistol, (A good grip de-activates the grip safety) acquire your target and with your strong hand, de-activate the thumb safety, pull the trigger. Most experienced shooters practice placing their strong hand thumb over the thumb safety so this action becomes a natural fluid part of the presentation.
For all three of those things to happen accidentally at the very same time something very strange must be going on in your pants and I'm quite certain the average person would notice.
In contrast, lets compare this to a striker fired weapon such as the Glock. The Glock virtually has no safety so only one thing must happen for the gun to fire accidentally. Something must trip the trigger(thus de-activating the safety)
A double action revolver has exactly the same chances of an accidental discharge.
Condition 2, Round in the chamber hammer down, resting on the firing pin, safety off (the hammer must be cocked to activate the safety). In other words there is nothing to prevent the firing pin from being forced into the primer of the cartridge. (this excludes those designs that incorporate a firing pin safety device such as the Colt series 80's and the Kimber series II's) In my opinion not a safe way to carry a gun. The most dangerous way to carry a 1911.
To bring the gun into action you must draw and cock the hammer. Presumably while something extremely stressful is going on. This isn't as easy as it would be with a single action revolver, most likely there is a beavertail grip safety in the way effectively destroying any chances of a proper presentation grip. (In other words there's a good chance your going to die with a loaded gun in your hand)
Condition 3, empty chamber, hammer down, safety off. Some say this is a good way to carry a 1911 but I disagree. It is better than condition 2 but still a bad choice. You must draw and rack the slide, effectively destroying any chance of a proper presentation from the holster. There are those that practice with and have specially designed holsters to enable them to push down on the back strap charging the weapon immediatly before presentation but then you are presenting a cocked and locked pistol with no safety! This will most likely sweep part of your own body and I pray to God you don't have your finger on the trigger before you get to your target! Especially under stress.
please note I do not intend to start the Glock/1911 war all over again I merely used it as one of two examples.
dairycreek
New member
Condition one!
It really bothered me to know that the hammer was cocked and "waiting"! So, for the longest time I carred in condition one but with no shell in the chamber. Sounds kind of dumb in retrospect but it eventually gave me the confidence to "go all the way", as it were. Anyway, it worked for me. Good shooting
It really bothered me to know that the hammer was cocked and "waiting"! So, for the longest time I carred in condition one but with no shell in the chamber. Sounds kind of dumb in retrospect but it eventually gave me the confidence to "go all the way", as it were. Anyway, it worked for me. Good shooting
What blades said. But he forgot "State Department" carry--Condition Four: empty weapon, magazine out of weapon, carried separately.
I carry C1. Don't understand why the same people that are afraid of 1911s, but carry Glocks around.
Only ND I've seen is with a Browning .380. Guy is walking about, BANG! Pistol hammer must have snagged on belt or pants and retracted enough to fire??? Go figure.
I carry C1. Don't understand why the same people that are afraid of 1911s, but carry Glocks around.
Only ND I've seen is with a Browning .380. Guy is walking about, BANG! Pistol hammer must have snagged on belt or pants and retracted enough to fire??? Go figure.
Cocked and locked is perfectly safe as long as you observe proper gun handling techniques. In other words, take the thumb safety off only when you are ready to shoot and keep your finger off of trigger until you are ready to take the shot. I have seen to many people let a round go while slamming a fresh mag into the gun. Cause: finger on the trigger, safety off.
Condition One....although I admit that when I first started carrying my Kimber, I worked my way up to that. I recommend that course of action for anyone new to the 1911 style. Hitting the ground running with something you don't have experience with is an invitation to an AD.
you know....KS has a good point. There seems to be a lot of back and forth about condition one in a 1911, but not a peep about DA's and DAO's without a manual safety (I'm thinking Glocks and Kahrs, not the Springfield XD, which is the exception with the grip safety). Does anyone know of any comparison research on AD's between 1911's, and say Glocks? I seem to remember a thread on TFL talking about an FBI who shot himself in the leg while breaking down his Glock to clean it. And the was another AD thread in the General Discussion forum about a guy pulling his Glock on the firing line and having an AD. Any input??
If for whatever reason Cocked & locked
makes you uncomfortable but you still like the 1911 platform them look into the new Para ordance 7.45 FDA guns. a 1911 platform but with what para calls a "Light Double action" You can carry safely cocked with the hammer down (actually thats the way to carry ir the hammer is a DA only and every shot is from hammer down.) The trigger is pretty good at about 6-8 lb pull. Check them out they come in 3 sizes now: wide body with 10 round mags (15 in LEO version) std 1911 size and a compact version officers model sized. I am planning to pick up one of the latter when I move to PA and can get my CCW permit.
makes you uncomfortable but you still like the 1911 platform them look into the new Para ordance 7.45 FDA guns. a 1911 platform but with what para calls a "Light Double action" You can carry safely cocked with the hammer down (actually thats the way to carry ir the hammer is a DA only and every shot is from hammer down.) The trigger is pretty good at about 6-8 lb pull. Check them out they come in 3 sizes now: wide body with 10 round mags (15 in LEO version) std 1911 size and a compact version officers model sized. I am planning to pick up one of the latter when I move to PA and can get my CCW permit.
Johnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
Back in my more "Operational" days - - -
- - -serving felony warrants or beating through the weeds on manhunts, or otherwise playing cops & robbers - - -
I would carry a second .45 or a High Power, left side, with hammer down and loaded chamber. This allowed for a left hand draw and presentation.
But that wasn't nearly so satisfactory as a Remington shotgun or an AR-15.
Primary sidearm was always cocked and locked.
Best,
Johnny
- - -serving felony warrants or beating through the weeds on manhunts, or otherwise playing cops & robbers - - -
I would carry a second .45 or a High Power, left side, with hammer down and loaded chamber. This allowed for a left hand draw and presentation.
But that wasn't nearly so satisfactory as a Remington shotgun or an AR-15.
Primary sidearm was always cocked and locked.
Best,
Johnny
Weshoot, you are half right. The model 1910 was designed without a thumb safety but the ordnance board wanted the change. The thumb safety was incorporated and the model was approved by the ordnance board in march of 1911.
Due to wartime conditions and a lack of experienced officers (most common personnel to carry sidearms) the Army changed it's policy and had the pistol carried condition 3.
The design was however optomised for a cavalry rider attempting to draw,fire and or reload from horseback.
Due to wartime conditions and a lack of experienced officers (most common personnel to carry sidearms) the Army changed it's policy and had the pistol carried condition 3.
The design was however optomised for a cavalry rider attempting to draw,fire and or reload from horseback.