how do wadcutters feed in lever action?

R

revolvers_good

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Hi All, thinking of 357 lever gun for range gun. I reload 357 and 38 special for my revolver, and think lever action rifle would be nice addition. I mostly shoot 38 special wadcutters, and wonder if any of you use these in lever guns.
 
Got another similar question and if someone answers your wadcutter question they may be able to answer mine! Along with wadcutters, how will a round ball feed in a lever action (Henry)?
 
Nope - full wadcutters will not feed in a lever action. SWC should without problem since they have a nose to slide up the feed ramp and into the chamber. (I think, but have never tried - someone might correct me on this)

Any round nose bullet will feed fine, but you have a safety problem in a tube fed magazine lever action using these. These should not be stacked in the tube since they could strike the primer of the round in front of them. You can feed them in one at a time or two at a time (one in the chamber and one in the tube).
 
I remember a round nose 30/30 cartridge years ago. I guess no one knew it was dangerous. I use a Hornady hbwc .314 in my Marlin 94. I load it so the base is even with bottom of the neck so the round is almost as long as my pb 3114 bullet. I wonder if a .38 WC loaded out a bit would feed better. BTW, the hbwc is pretty accurate in my Marlin when loaded to about 1100fps.
 
I have one of the replica 1873 rifles, and it will feed wad cutters ok, but not smoothly. Sometimes they will go right in, but most times I have to shake and jiggle the handle and then they will feed.

If you like the lever gun, my recommendation is the Lyman 358655 works like butter, and the wider meplat seems to really make pop cans and what not jump! The big old grease groove assures that your lube will last all the way down a 20+ inch barrel also.

If I do a wadcutter, I single feed them by opening the action just enough for the bolt to clear the elevator without raising the elevator, and then like I said they will go in the chamber eventually. I have single loaded the magazine, which in this rifle assures that the first round is popped into the elevator, and then raise it up as usual. They are often difficult to feed from here, and if you can't feed them into the chamber, it is a real bear to get them out of the rifle without complete disassembly.

YMMV.
 
Round nose bullets aren't dangerous in a lever action, neither are rounded soft point 30-30's. It's the sharp pointed spitzers that are dangerous.
 
NINEX19 said:
Nope - full wadcutters will not feed in a lever action.
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I must respectfully declare that statement incorrect. It may be generally true, but it is not always true.

In a properly tuned and timed lever action, wadcutters (and empty cases) will feed perfectly.

The problem is that most factory rifles are not tuned and timed well enough to do so. Some can do it, but most cannot.

In the last year and a half, I converted two Marlin 336s (.30-30) to Marlin 444s (.444 Marlin). Before I called the actions "good" I tuned the parts to feed and function with wadcutters and empty cases, with zero malfunctions (or even mild hiccups).

Where there's the will, or luck, or a check book, there's a way.....
 
Round nose bullets aren't dangerous in a lever action, neither are rounded soft point 30-30's. It's the sharp pointed spitzers that are dangerous.
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While I understand your distinction, I have never seen any .357 spitzers. I would say I have seen some "round nose" that came to a point enough to cause potential issues. This is why round nose flat point or just plain flat point were invented. If a better alternative created is available, why take the chance with a round nose that is recognized as potentially having a problem? If it was not a potential safety problem, why can you not buy commercially made 30-30 ammo in plain round nose or spitzer form? Currently, your only choices are flat nose and FTX (unless there is something out there I am not aware of). Of course you can buy round nose in .357/.38 since it is used in revolvers that will fire all those bullet styles.

Hornady created the FTX for the 30-30 and .357 (44?) specifically for lever guns to give us the best of both safety and ballistics.
 
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I must respectfully declare that statement incorrect. It may be generally true, but it is not always true.
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OK, I give on that. I guess I have never had a properly "tuned and timed" lever gun. I have never been very successful at getting these loaded without a bit of jiggling to align properly. It is a frustrating mission in my experience to try to get them to chamber even 50% of the time. This in my book would classify as the same as not being able to at all. Having to shake and jiggle the handle classifies as malfunction to me. Getting a bullet from the ramp into the chamber requires a bullet of smaller dimension than the case to act as a guide for any resemblance of reliability.
 
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My 1894 44 did not like SWCs. I'd say about 20% of the time a round would fail to load properly without some giggling of the lever. Once chambered my gun doesn't like to fire non jacketed bullets either. Even in standard 240gr weight they keyhole. But load 225 or 265gr FTX bullets and I have bolt action accuracy out to 100yds with zero feeding issues.
 
In a properly tuned and timed lever action, wadcutters (and empty cases) will feed perfectly.
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My bone stock 1990 vintage Marlin 1894S will feed flush loaded wadcutters, my bird-shot loads that use an over-shot card, and indeed, empty cases...
 
Any round nose bullet will feed fine, but you have a safety problem in a tube fed magazine lever action using these. These should not be stacked in the tube since they could strike the primer of the round in front of them.
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Which lever gun mfgs have published this warning? You can only shoot flat point .357 ammo in a tube magazine?
 
Which lever gun mfgs have published this warning? You can only shoot flat point .357 ammo in a tube magazine?
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This is directly from the Marlin 1894 owners manual:

WARNING: Some pointed and full metal
jacket round nose bullets are on the market
which can chainfire other cartridges in
a tubular magazine during recoil, causing
severe injury and damage. If you are
uncertain about the safety of using a particular
cartridge in your Marlin, contact
the ammunition or bullet manufacturer.

I realize nobody actually reads manuals anymore, but they do have some important information. Anyone can do with that information what they want. I consider safety when using a firearm of utmost importance.

There is a reason flat point bullets exist and it is not for their superior ballistics.
 
I'd like to point out that it is NOT the round nose shape alone that is the problem, it is the more pointed FMJ "roundnose" shape and toughness that is a risk.

For example, the usual 9mm Luger FMJ is a roundnose, but it is a very pointy one, compared to the usual round nose profile of revolver bullets. Lead RN, even more pointed ones are seldom an issue, lead alloy is just too soft.

Generations of .30-30 shooters used factory round nose jacketed soft point bullets. The nose area is exposed lead, and too wide an area to be a risk of primer detonation.
 
Mine will feed .357 wadcutters loaded with the bullet sticking out of the case about 1/8 inch (to the crimp groove.) It will not feed .38 Special wadcutters unless you load them really long, and will not reliably feed .357's when loaded flush.
 
Howdy

To properly answer this question, first you have to define which lever gun.

The really old Winchester designs, such as the 1860 Henry, 1866, and 1873 feed a round straight into the chamber. These rifles use a carrier or cartridge elevator which rises straight up from the lowered position. It really is like an elevator riding up an elevator shaft. The cartridge feeds straight out of the magazine, and then once the carrier reaches the top of its stroke the cartridge is pushed straight into the chamber just like a torpedo being pushed into the torpedo tube of a submarine. This type of action allows the cartridge to feed straight into the chamber with the least hangups.

Other lever guns, such as a Winchester 1892 and 1894, Marlin 1894, and Henry Big Boy employ a tilting carrier. The carrier tilts and the cartridge slides up into the chamber much like a round in a 1911 riding up the feed ramp. This type of action can be more troublesome with some bullet shapes, because any sharp edge or shoulder may catch on the edge of the chamber as it enters the chamber.

Lastly, you have to define the cartridge itself. All the old WCF cartridges; 44-40, 38-40, 32-20 and 25-20 had a tapered or bottleneck shape. That taper helps the round enter the chamber a bit more easily than a straight round such as 45 Colt or 38 Special/357 Mag. It is no accident that the first WCF cartridge, the 44-40 had a taper to it. Lined up like a torpedo on the carrier of the 1873 Winchester it slid directly into the chamber with almost any bullet shape. I have always suspected that Winchester chose the shape of the 44-40 after their experience with the straight 44 Henry Rimfire cartridge in the Henry and 1866 Winchester.

Getting back to the original question, I have a Marlin 1894 chambered for 38Sp/357 Mag. It has no problem feeding Semi-Wadcutter bullets up the slanted carrier. The nose of the bullet strikes the top of the chamber and tilts into the chamber without allowing the shoulder of the bullet to catch on the edge of the chamber. However not all such Marlins can feed this bullet shape successfully.

In Cowboy Action shooting the most common bullet shape is a Round Nosed Flat Point. This will bullet will feed well in just about any rifle and any caliber. Next most common is probably the Truncated Cone bullet shape, which also feeds beautifully. Neither of these bullets shapes has a hard edge to catch on the chamber.

I only feed Round Nose Flat Point bullets in my 44-40 and 38-40 Henry and 1873 lever guns. They feed fine, just like a torpedo entering a torpedo tube.
 
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