How do I tell if my 45colt 1860 will use a 252 or 254 boolits?

S

Stopsign32v

New member
I'm wanting to load up some BP cartridges but I want to know if I need 252 or 254 size. What's the best way to tell and best tool to use?
 
It would take some serious necking down to get a 25 cal bullet crimped in that 45 cal case...;) I use a .452 cast bullet for my pietta remmy 1858. I measured the chamber mouths of the cylinder to see how much the bullets gets swaged down and they measured very close to .452 (I use digital calipers to measure). My bore slugs to .452 also, so it is close to ideal. Suggest you do the same with your cylinder. No sense using a .454 if the bullet gets swaged down to .452 out of the cylinder anyway.
 
So am I. That's why I said cast bullets and not balls.

Measure the rifling grooves at the muzzle with a veneer caliper, that
will give you the proper diameter. Grooves, not the lands.
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That doesn't do any good if the cartridge cylinder chambers swage the bullets down to less than the bore's groove diameter before entering the forcing cone. Cartridge cylinder chambers are usually not bored even straight through. There's a step in there that swages the bullets down so they are not too big for the forcing cone. For .45colt that is usually .452, but not always.
 
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Sorry I meant 452 and 454. Been having a heck of a week at work so far. 1 hour to go though!
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Hang in there, I think anyone that's ever messed with the 45 cartridge knew what you meant.

Slug your bore and cylinder throats that should tell which diameter bullet will work best.
 
Is it a "conversion" utilizing something like a Kirst or similar . . . or is this a "conversion" that was made as a conversion?

If it is a pistol that was made as a "conversion" such as a Uberti Richards & Mason, etc. . then the bore should be .452. If not and it's a conversion made with a C & B revolver and a conversion cylinder, then you're going to have to use a slug that is hollow base or "heeled" so that it expands as it enters the bore.

In handguns, if shooting cast, it's common to slug the bore. Use a soft lead sinker or such, oil the bore well and carefully drive the slightly oversize sinker through the bore with a brass rod or similar. Then measure with a micrometer. A set of vernier calipers/digital calipers can give you a "rough" measurement but not an accurate measurement.

On cast, usually .001 to .002 oversize of the bore measurement works well. As mentioned, it does no good to try and put a large bullet through a smaller cylinder throat and then expect it to shoot accurately in a bore larger than the throats are as the bullet is swaged down before it gets in to the bore - that will give you poor accuracy and usually "leading" to the bore.

If your bore slugs larger than the throats, it may be necessary to have the cylinder throats honed or opened up to the bore size or just a tad larger like .0005 or so.

I have a .454-190 Ideal mold that drops larger than .454 - that's not uncommon with molds depending on the alloy you use. For my BP cartridges, I use soft lead - the same pot that I use for casting round ball and minie balls. I then finger lube with my BP lube at the time I seat the bullet.

If you mold drops heavy (diameter wise) - you can always get a Lee push through die that fits in your press to size them down. They make a .452 but it's not hard to polish them out to a larger diameter such as .453 or .454. A dowel with a slit cut in it and a strip of fine emery paper slipped in and wrapped around the dowel, a drill or drip press and some oil will do it just fine. Lee push through sizing dies can often be "off" - I've had several. You can get them from Lee dealers - I like Titan Reloading as they have excellent prices and Dennis gives excellent service. Polish and then size a bullet to check your progress as you are polishing the die out so you don't get it too large. If you end up using a larger bullet, you may have to adjust the size of your expanding plug in your expanding die to allow the correct neck tension as you seat.
 
Just for heck of it, I measured my own cylinders mouths. Here's what I got:

R&D 6 shot (for my Remie). .454"
Kirst (Dragoons and '60 (U)). .453"
El Patron Comp (U). .453"
Ruger Blk.hk (.45 acp for
E.P.C above). .454"


Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
 
bedbugbilly, I have a Kirst .45 conversion cylinder for my 1858 Remington and have never had to use heeled or hollow based bullets. .452 works fine and is very accurate with my hand loaded black powder cartridges. With a .36 cal with a .375 bore yes, you do need heeled bullets.
 
Mine is an R&D in a Pietta 1858 target model. My conversion cylinder is about 8 or 9 years old. Cylinder chambers and forcing cone are spot on perfect in alignment, and it shoots just fine. Still, accuracy is better with round ball even though the c&b cylinder shaves the balls down to ~ .447 / .449. Probably because the balls are soft lead and obturate well. I've been tempted to ream the c&b cylinder chambers to .452 but if it ain't broke why fix it?
 
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