I use to own a coffee table book on 19th century guns and such. I remember one photo of a southern guerrilla fighter with a loaded 58 Remington. there wasn't any grease over balls and I was wondering if any of you guys no what was the drill back in the old days. grease, tallow, felt wads, etc?
How did they do it, or did they bother
- Thread starter salvadore
- Start date
maillemaker
New member
In period, it was common to use commercial, often combustible cartridges. These utilized conical bullets with lube packed into grooves on the bullet.
Steve
Steve
bedbugbilly
New member
Plus you have to remember that combustible cartridges were available . . . basically slid in to the chamber and then rammed in . . . . a quick load/reload for the time . . . .
If they weren't available . . . then what Hawg says . . . . .
That's not to say that some sort of "grease" wasn't used . . . it would make complete sense to do such, especially when riding/raiding/etc. in less that desirable weather. . . . but more to keep moisture out.
You have to remember . . . when we think about things like this and wonder about them . . . we are doing so with "present day thinking" - worried about chain fires, about lawyer induced safety, etc. Our ancestors considered their weapons as tools . . .
I grease mine, not to prevent chain fires . . . but to keep fouling soft. Why? Because when I shoot my BP revolvers, I am going through a number of cylinders full of rounds - perhaps as many as 20 at a shooting session.
Guerrillas . . . such as those that caused havoc to the Union forces along the B & O Rail Road would strike by surprise and swiftly. The chances of them firing more than a cylinder full would be on the narrow side . . . plus, many carried more than one revolver. With combustible cartridges, they could easily quickly reload but fouling would not have been that big of a problem due to the limited shots taken. Then they would fade back in to the woodwork and Im sure clean their revolvers prior to hiding them from "Yankee view".
If they weren't available . . . then what Hawg says . . . . .
That's not to say that some sort of "grease" wasn't used . . . it would make complete sense to do such, especially when riding/raiding/etc. in less that desirable weather. . . . but more to keep moisture out.
You have to remember . . . when we think about things like this and wonder about them . . . we are doing so with "present day thinking" - worried about chain fires, about lawyer induced safety, etc. Our ancestors considered their weapons as tools . . .
I grease mine, not to prevent chain fires . . . but to keep fouling soft. Why? Because when I shoot my BP revolvers, I am going through a number of cylinders full of rounds - perhaps as many as 20 at a shooting session.
Guerrillas . . . such as those that caused havoc to the Union forces along the B & O Rail Road would strike by surprise and swiftly. The chances of them firing more than a cylinder full would be on the narrow side . . . plus, many carried more than one revolver. With combustible cartridges, they could easily quickly reload but fouling would not have been that big of a problem due to the limited shots taken. Then they would fade back in to the woodwork and Im sure clean their revolvers prior to hiding them from "Yankee view".
mikthestick
New member
I have never thought putting grease on top of revolver balls was a good idea for two reasons.
1 I read somewhere in Hatchers notebook about grease on bullets causing high pressure problems.
2 The remington cap and ball I was allowed to fire needed a new barrel about a month after I shot it. The barrel split. I know this can happen for a number of reasons but I always wondered why it happened.
1 I read somewhere in Hatchers notebook about grease on bullets causing high pressure problems.
2 The remington cap and ball I was allowed to fire needed a new barrel about a month after I shot it. The barrel split. I know this can happen for a number of reasons but I always wondered why it happened.
FrontierGander
New member
a thin coating of crisco applied by q tip does the trick for me. Filling the cylinder with it just makes a mess.
maillemaker
New member
So today I spent the entire day at the range. I started off puttering about with my Pederoli P58, which I still don't have a decent load for, and then I switched to my Uberti Walker.
I had loads in 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, and 60 grains 3F Shuetzen, 12 shots of each except for the 60 grains which were only 6.
I shot 6 with no filler, and 6 with cream of wheat filler. I used no lube, since the balls with no filler sat much deeper in the chambers and thus would end up with more lube on top of them than the ones closer to the chamber mouth. I did not want another variable so I omitted the lube.
This is the first time I had shot with no lube over the balls. Holy cow, what a difference in fouling. After just 6 shots, there was a hard crusty fouling that resisted Ballistol and a copper brush. However, when I poured some water down the barrel the bristle brush got rid of it.
So. Over-ball lube make a big difference in fouling and clean-up.
Secondly, I found that the best group was still 45 grains 3F with filler. No load without filler matched that load.
Today was also the first time I loaded the Walker to its full capacity of 60 grains. That was a hoot.
Obviously that was shot with no filler as there is no room for filler with that size charge.
I had intended to also shoot my Pietta 1860 and 1858, but this ended up taking all day.
I'll scan and post pictures of the targets later.
Steve
I had loads in 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, and 60 grains 3F Shuetzen, 12 shots of each except for the 60 grains which were only 6.
I shot 6 with no filler, and 6 with cream of wheat filler. I used no lube, since the balls with no filler sat much deeper in the chambers and thus would end up with more lube on top of them than the ones closer to the chamber mouth. I did not want another variable so I omitted the lube.
This is the first time I had shot with no lube over the balls. Holy cow, what a difference in fouling. After just 6 shots, there was a hard crusty fouling that resisted Ballistol and a copper brush. However, when I poured some water down the barrel the bristle brush got rid of it.
So. Over-ball lube make a big difference in fouling and clean-up.
Secondly, I found that the best group was still 45 grains 3F with filler. No load without filler matched that load.
Today was also the first time I loaded the Walker to its full capacity of 60 grains. That was a hoot.
Obviously that was shot with no filler as there is no room for filler with that size charge.I had intended to also shoot my Pietta 1860 and 1858, but this ended up taking all day.
I'll scan and post pictures of the targets later.
Steve
Hatcher's concern was grease on .30-'06 rifle bullets working its way down around the neck of the cartridge case, hardly the same thing as grease in a percussion revolver.
While C.S. forces probably used loose powder and ball more than Federals, they all preferred cartridges when they were available. Cartridges were made from skin, foil and, less commonly, combustible paper. Unlike .58 rifle cartridges, where the paper was discarded and the bullet rammed, paper pistol cartridges were always loaded whole into the chamber and rammed.
There were also cartridges made with a shaped powder charge, held together with collodion, simply glued to the base of the bullet, like some of the caseless ammo tried in more recent times.
Jim
While C.S. forces probably used loose powder and ball more than Federals, they all preferred cartridges when they were available. Cartridges were made from skin, foil and, less commonly, combustible paper. Unlike .58 rifle cartridges, where the paper was discarded and the bullet rammed, paper pistol cartridges were always loaded whole into the chamber and rammed.
There were also cartridges made with a shaped powder charge, held together with collodion, simply glued to the base of the bullet, like some of the caseless ammo tried in more recent times.
Jim