How common are crimped primer brass?

T

TruthTellers

New member
I was priming cases the other day with my new RCBS Universal hand priming tool and ran into issues with the brass flying out when I tried to seat primers.

This happened with Federal and Fiochhi brass in .45 Colt and Fiochhi in .32 S&W Long.

I'm just guessing that it was something to do with crimped primer pockets because when I used Magtech .45 Colt brass and Starline .32 brass, I didn't have issues with the RCBS primer.

So, I'd like to know how common crimped primer pockets are and what brands of factory ammo use them?

I'm guessing that Starline doesn't use crimped primer pockets because I haven't had any issues with their brass.
 
Not up on it but Starline is aftermarket only ?

Unless it comes out of a factory as loaded ammo it won't have a crimped pocket.
 
Crimped primers are generally found on military cartridges (or commercial cartridges made in facilities that also make military cartridges). The crimp is done to ensure the primer remains in place during cycling in semi-automatic weapons.

The crimp can be removed by either displacing the brass out of the way (swaging) or removing the crimp (reaming). Either way works perfectly well. Some people are squeamish about cutting brass from the case head (although the brass being removed ceased to be relevant to the structure of the case when the crimp was applied) and for them use of a swaging die would be recommended.

Not all primer seating problems are attributable to crimped primers. I am, for example, not familiar with any .45 Colt (which I take it you mean .45 Long Colt) being made with crimped cases. There may be, but I'm not aware of them. If you are having problems seating primers on non-crimped brass, carefully inspect the shell plate on the priming tool and the alignment of the ram with the primer pocket. Also, make sure you are using the ram and primer feed that match the size primers you are trying to install (i.e. large or small). If you continue to have problems with non-crimped brass, contact RCBS and let them walk you through trouble-shooting the Universal priming tool.
 
more common on nato calibers starting off as loaded ammo.
I see it mainly on 223, and 308, but have seen it on some 9mm as well.

sometimes I have a little more issues with some brass than others depending on which brand primer and shell holder I'm using in a old style rcbs hand primer.

mainly referring to uncrimped brass.

generally if it starts to bind a little, I have noticed the primer does not go in square in the pocket, holding the case in one hand in the shell holder sometimes helps it.
 
It may not even be crimped primer pockets, I'm just guessing it is. What's got me upset is that I bought this universal hand primer because it doesn't use a shellholder, yet had I got the one that requires using a shellholder would probably eliminate the issue.

I don't want to return this just yet though, but having to pull out my Lee ram prime and Lee hand press didn't instill me with much confidence in RCBS products.
 
"Universal" can be the equivalent of "one size fits all".

And, if you have any experience with "one size fits all" you realize that its really "one size fits all, but fits no one perfectly"

I don't have a universal primer, I use the one that takes shellholders, which I already have.

Commercial ammo rarely has crimped in primers. Its an extra step that costs money, so its only done on military rounds, where the contract calls for it.

Never ever heard of crimped primers on .45 Colt brass. .45ACP, yes, .45 Colt, no.

What brand of primers are you using?? There are tolerances, and some do run larger than others. Combine a large primer with a tight primer pocket and possibly a little bit of misalignment in a "universal" tool, that could explain your problem.
 
TruthTellers wrote:
I don't want to return this just yet though, but having to pull out my Lee ram prime and Lee hand press didn't instill me with much confidence in RCBS products.
Click to expand...

I hate to speak ill of RCBS since the majority of my equipment is RCBS and they have held my hand through a lot of problems, but if you are still within the return period, I would return the one with the universal shell holder and get the one that requires a standard shell holder. This eliminates all potential problems of mis-matching seater stem and alignment with the primer pocket.

I use the old 1970's vintage RCBS priming tool (used standard shell holder and you put the primers in one at a time) and have no major problems. As it has aged, it has become a little more "fiddly" with needing adjustments to the seater stems, but it hasn't gotten annoying enough to make me want to switch it out for something newer.
 
If there is a question about whether the primer is crimped in place, look carefully at the case head. Look at the margins around the primer pocket. There are two methods for mechanically retaining a primer. One is crimping, the other is staking.

Crimping involves displacing some of the brass around the edge of the primer pocket into the primer pocket. This is done by a ram that slowly applies high pressure to the edges of the primer pocket and thus leaves a tell-tale ring of brass depressed slighly below the rest of the case head around the primer pocket.

Staking the primer involves having a ram with a number of needles pierce the case head and physically move a small amount of brass behind the primer.

Either type of primer retention will be immediately obvious. If you don't see either of these markings on the case head, then you can assume the difficulty seating the primer is attributable to something other than a crimped/staked primer.
 
hdwhit said:
I hate to speak ill of RCBS since the majority of my equipment is RCBS and they have held my hand through a lot of problems, but if you are still within the return period, I would return the one with the universal shell holder and get the one that requires a standard shell holder. This eliminates all potential problems of mis-matching seater stem and alignment with the primer pocket.

I use the old 1970's vintage RCBS priming tool (used standard shell holder and you put the primers in one at a time) and have no major problems. As it has aged, it has become a little more "fiddly" with needing adjustments to the seater stems, but it hasn't gotten annoying enough to make me want to switch it out for something newer.
Click to expand...
I bought it from MidwayUSA, so should I do the return through them or RCBS directly?
 
I would return it to Midway if it just doesn't work. Only to RCBS if it is broken.

Crimped primer pockets would be very unusual in .45 C or .32 S&W but the .45 Colt has a narrow rim for the patent shellholder to grip.
 
I have found at least one brand (Agilla?) of apparent commercial .38 Special cases in a bag of range pick-up brass that I have bought online. No military head-stamp just the cartridge designation (.38 SPL), and the brand name so, at least one maker is doing it for .38 Special.
 
I have a RCBS universal hand primer but don't load for handguns, just 204 & 223. I have had some brass "spring" out or flip out when trying to seat a primer when using this RCBS tool. I take this act of kicking the brass out as a warning, something is not right with priming this particular piece of brass.
I've found I have to spin the brass case in the shell holder sometimes to "center" or align the primer pocket and primer a bit better and the primer will seat ok then. Crimped primer pockets can sometimes be a bit lopsided/out of round due to the crimp ring. You may need to remove a bit more of the crimp ring for smoother insertion of the primer.
 
You can buy the Lee priming tool and the whole set of shell holders for less than the RCBS priming tool. I'd return the RCBS and get something that uses a better retention system. Like others have mentioned - the brass isn't the problem here.

I'd start by emailing midwayUSA. See what they say and go from there.
 
Many cases have very little to none chamfer on the primer pocket mouth. Without much chamfer (tapered entryway into the pocket) the primer has to be aligned very closely or it will hang up on the pocket mouth. If the shell holder is a bit sloppy, this just adds to the problem. Try using a countersink or chamfer tool to put a slight break in the mouth of the pocket and see if that don't make it easier to seat the primers...
 
mikld said:
Many cases have very little to none chamfer on the primer pocket mouth. Without much chamfer (tapered entryway into the pocket) the primer has to be aligned very closely or it will hang up on the pocket mouth. If the shell holder is a bit sloppy, this just adds to the problem. Try using a countersink or chamfer tool to put a slight break in the mouth of the pocket and see if that don't make it easier to seat the primers...
Click to expand...
I'm not gonna put extra time into something that I shouldn't have to. The Lee ram prime worked fine with the same cases, no taper on the primer pocket needed.

I think I just overthought it and bought the wrong one. Should have got the non-universal.
 
About 15 years ago I bought a case of S&B NATO 9mm at a gun show. These were 124gr ball that were very hot and they had staked primers. The biggest reason for the purchase was to up my 9mm brass inventory.

They were a pain decapping as I went through 4 or 5 pins as they would mushroom at head. Once they were all decapped I had to run the pocket reamer through all before I could press in new primers. I have the Lyman case prep multi tool and it puts a nice chamfer and cleaned up the pockets.

I started sorting my brass 6 or 7 years ago when the Ammoland stepped cases came out. Those S&B cases are still running strong.
 
TruthTellers said:
I'm not gonna put extra time into something that I shouldn't have to. The Lee ram prime worked fine with the same cases, no taper on the primer pocket needed.

I think I just overthought it and bought the wrong one. Should have got the non-universal.
Click to expand...
If inspecting your brass and chamfering the primer pockets is too much work (takes less than 2 seconds), you can buy pre-primed brass...
 
"...but if you are still within the return period..." There is no "within the return period"
for RCBS kit. Their warrantee is forever. Even with used kit.
You won't find crimped primers on .32 S&W Long either. Never seen crimping on any commercial cartridge at all. Milsurp only. In any case, you can see the crimp if there is one.
 
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