How Big Does the Target Appear at [Blank] Distance?

[rjinga]

I was pondering that question this evening, so I went on the internet to see what I could see. I was looking for a formula along the lines of “if you are shooting at a [insert size/diameter] target at [insert distance], it will appear to be only [calculates size/diameter] without the use of optics.” Well, I either couldn’t find the answer, or I was too ignorant to recognize it when I saw it.

So, being the compulsive person that I am, I measured off 6.25 yds, and 25 yds, in the office hallway. Then, I taped up the two targets I shot today, grabbed my ruler, held it at arm’s length to simulate the front post of my rifle, and began calculating. I think I got the math right. (No, I didn't, but I think I've got it this time)

The collage photo is of a 12 inch diameter circle with a 7 inch and 3 inch inner ring, and a 1 inch bullseye. My shots, taken at 100, 50, and 25 yds are shown going from left to right. The 12 inch diameter circle at 100 yds would appear to have a diameter of approximately 3/32 of an inch to the naked eye (no optics). (That explains why I couldn’t even see the dot or the yellow lines at that distance) At 50 yds, the 7 inch diameter circle would appear as 7/64 of an inch; the 3 inch circle would be 3/64 of an inch, and the bullseye 1/64 of an inch. And then, at 25 yds, the 3 inch diameter ring would appear to be 3/32 of an inch, and the 1 inch bullseye would be 1/32 of an inch.

In the second photo, the silhouette has a width of 18 inches (dotted line to dotted line), with a 6 inch square CM box. However, at 25 yds the width would appear to only be 9/16 of an inch and the CM box would look like a 3/16 inch square. At 50 yds the width appears to be only 9/32 of an inch. And then finally, at 100 yds, the width is only 9/64 of an inch.

Aim small, miss small!

 

[rjinga]

Re-doing the math.

 

[tangolima]

It is the angle extended by the object that matters to your vision. A 6' tall person standing at 100yd would appears the same size as a 3' tall kid standing at 50 yd, or a 18" tall infant at 25 yd, or a 9" tall doll at 12.5 yd, or a 4.5" tall figurine at 6.25 yd, or....

-TL

 

[JJ45]

M1 Garand front post

On a man sized target-if the front sight does not completely hide the target then the hold should be center mass. This is assuming a battle zero which I think equates to something like 4 inches high at 100 yards.

If the target is covered by the front sight the the rifleman needs to hold high...

This is a general rule and all firearms are different.

 

[rjinga]

The main reason I asked the question was because I wanted to be able to better explain my shooting prowess [sarcasm]to my non-shooting friends, family, and acquaintances.

For example, I'd show my wife a target and say something like "I shot this at 100 yds!" Her: "Un huh, that's nice." I would like to be able to say " But at 100 yds this target only looks as big as a (whatever the measurement or corresponding object might be)."

 

[tangolima]

In that case you shouldn't be using a man sized target, but the group you shot. I require better than 2" at 100yd for any of my rifles with open sight.

That's equivalent to 0.013" where the muzzle is.

"I had to hold the rifle really steady. The front sight couldn't move more than a hair in any direction, Ma."

-TL

 

[rjinga]

Here's how this silhouette target would appear at 6.25, 12.5, 25 yds.

 

[rjinga]

And...

50 and 100 yds.

 

[tobnpr]

In that case you shouldn't be using a man sized target, but the group you shot.

This.

Trying to follow the logic behind the "shooting prowess", vs target size. Are you talking "hit, or miss"?

The only way I could see this being relevant is if you had a steel swinger set up that was the size of the minimum level of accuracy you expected. As in, a 3"plate at 300 yards if your minimum standard is minute of angle. Hit, or miss...

 

[Gunplummer]

A mute point. Contrary to what the eye doctor tells you, your long range vision gets worse as you get older. I used to be able to draw a ring with a Coke can and fill it in black for a 100 yard target using an open sighted Mauser. Now I can't see it clear enough to shoot at 100 yards. Not everybody sees the same thing.

 

[Boncrayon]

Are ocular glasses or contacts involved with the shooter? What is the size selection on the scope adjustment rings? Apparent size and clarity change with optics with optics. Just an inquiry.

 

[rjinga]

Are ocular glasses or contacts involved with the shooter?

Yes, I wear progressive bi-focals.

What is the size selection on the scope adjustment rings? Apparent size and clarity change with optics with optics.

Not applicable.

I was looking for a formula along the lines of “if you are shooting at a [insert size/diameter] target at [insert distance], it will appear to be only [calculates size/diameter] without the use of optics.”

 

[HiBC]

I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for,but I will try.
Its been about 40 years since I was browsing in the RANGER or INFANTRY handbooks,but they had range estimation via the front sight information in them.
In any case,next time you are at the range,when you look at a target downrange,get a good idea of what the sight blade or bead width and or height measure against the target.
Example,if your target paper is16 in wide,and your blade covers 1/2 the width of the target at 100 yds,you can figure your blade width is about 8 minutes of angle,which is approx. 8 in at 100 yds.

Once you know that,its proportional geometry.That blade would cover 4 in at 50 yds,or 16 in at 200 yds.

That skill can be useful for very coarse range estimation,or even wind holdoff.

Of course,lasers and mildots,and target knobs are better,by far.

But knowing what your sight blade subtends gives you a tool better than a wild guess.
As far as a way to communicate how well you are shooting...You might try something like "At 100 yds,nearly all of my shots would hit a .... (Watermelon,Cantelope,grapefruit,orange,lime,quarter,dime,aspirin tablet,etc)
And never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

 

[darkgael]

targets

Interestingly.....take a look at match style targets. NRA pistol and rifle targets are sized so that regardless of the distance at which they are used, they have the same apparent diameter.
So an indoor 50 ft slow fire target (B2) with a bull about three inches wide will look the same to a shooter as the outdoor 25 yard slow fire B16 target and the 50 yard slow fire target (B6) though the B6 is actually larger, with an 8 inch bull and the B16 has a 5.3 inch bull.
Note about apparent and real sizes for groups: you shoot a one inch group at 100 yards. I shoot a two inch group at 100 yards. Your group is half the size of mine.
No....A two inch group is four times larger than a one inch group. Your group is only one quarter the size of mine. Much tighter.
Pete

 

[444]

This is where the whole concept of minutes of angle (MOA) comes into play.

Do some research on that. If I am reading your question correctly, this is what you are looking for.

This is something that is extremely important to understand when making sight adjustments. BUT, the same concept applies to targets: how large they appear or making reduced sized targets or whatever. This is also the very same concept if you want to use your front sight, or scope reticle as a range finding tool. Without getting into the meat and potatos of the whole thing. If your front sight covers X inches at 100 yards, you know your front sight covers X MOA......
If a target is X MOA wide or in diameter, you can make another target to be shot a different distance to appear the same size in your sight picture as long as it measures the same size in terms of MOA.


Very basically one MOA At 100 YARDS is approx. 1"
One MOA at 25 yards is approx. 1/4"
So a 1/4" circle or square at 25 yards will give you the same sight picture as a 1" circle or dot at 100 yards and so on.

 

[bamaranger]

milling a target

What you;re working on seems very similar to "milling" a known size target with a milldot type scope.

There are folks who are very good at this, but I am not one of them.

Basically, if target size is known, (say a 15" vehicle wheel) it can be milled with the scope. Once the appx size in mills is established, a math formula can be run to work out the range.

 

[rjinga]

I think I've found a solution, for my purposes anyway. Here's what I did when I was shooting yesterday.