How accurate were the original cowboy shooters?

E

El Chimango Pete

New member
I wonder how accurate shooting really was (or needed to be) in the Old west? - We have the legendary lawmen and/or outlaws that were superb. Wild Bill Hickok killed Dave Tutt with a single shot at 75 yards - notable for being one of the few recorded actual 'duels' and also that Wild Bill used two hands. Perhaps these were rare exceptions. There appears little effort towards our idea of "sight picture", most confrontations with handguns would have been at close quarters, and ammunition must have been scarce for practice… and of course there is the old argument - did they usually shoot one handed?

El Chimango Pete ---- A 44 beats 4 aces
 
You basically outline a recent article in American Handgunner (Nov/Dec '98) by Barrett Tillman. He goes right down the line addressing all of your questions and referring to several gunfights (including the one you mention). Can you get the magazine down there?
 
Everything I've read seems to indicate that most cowboys were very poor pistol shots. Ammo was expensive on a cowpunchers pay, they had little time to practice, and most avoided deadly social encounters. I remember reading of two cowboys who got into a shoot out with each other while standing at the bar of a saloon. They emptied their pistols at each other and all of the shots missed. Law officers and outlaws would be a different matter.
 
Missed that issue of "American Handgunner", pity - will try to order it as a 'back issue'. If they were not overly concerned with accuracy, on the other hand, Colt's, Remington, Starr, et al didn't seem to be supplying their guns accordingly: Quality products, generally better than the 'average' buyer would demand (also considering that guns would be relatively expensive to them). We will not use the term 'saturday night...etc.' (a media aberration) - but you see what i mean.
 
The guns didn't allow a lot of accuracy as we understand it today, primarily because of very poor sights. Good guns were expensive; a Colt SA was $17.50, over half a month's pay for a cowboy who got 50 cents a day and his meals and horse. (Cowboys rarely owned their horses, the horse belonged to the ranch, and the cowboy took first serve at the remuda line.) So the more usual carry guns were breaktop DAs, old percussion guns,
cheap ($2 - $3 through MW or Sears mail order) pocket revolvers, etc. Also Remingtons, S&Ws, Merwin-Hulberts, etc., etc. In one saloon fight, two groups of rival ranch hands fired over 200 shots at each other. Result - one dead cat!

Incidentally, the old timers didn't worry about lawsuits, so they carried six shots in their six-shooters, but they weren't crazy. They didn't depend on the hammer "safety" notch, but simply dropped the hammer between rounds, like they had done with the old Colts (safety pins) and Remingtons (safety notches in the cylinder.)
 
A comment or two

I know this thread is old but I wanted to add something of relevent to it.


I live in Colorado, and as accuracy goes. Let me tell you a story about a mine disbute near Cripple Creek/Victor Colorado. I will share the most important detyails so this a condenced version. then you will understand what my point was.

Near Cripple Creek/Victor Colorado there is a mountian called Battle Mountain. it was named that after so many mine claim disputes ended in alot of shooting.

This mine dispute happened at a mine that was one of the biggest produces on that mountain. It came about after the guards (workig for the other side) let claim jumpers into the mine to sieze it. When the owners and miners that worked there found out, they all proceeded to get up there and had a long shoot out with the claim jumpers. Over 3000 rounds were fired by both sides and it didn't end until the claim jumpers ran out of ammo and the military was called in. No one went to jail and only one person was wounded.

Many would say that their guns were not acurate. But in fact it was most likely a case of they really didn't want to be hung for killing anyone (either side), just because you may think your on the right side doesn't mean you are. So fear would be a good reason to miss.

As for the guns not being acurate. I disagree, I have shot many guns both original and replicas and have found that they are in fact acurate.

Wild bill Hickok was asked why he carried black powder (ball and cap) when everyone else was using cartridge. He responded, "just as acurate".

I used to have 2 1851 44s, I could group 3 inches at 30 yards. They were replicas but decent replicas. What it all comes down to is how much powder you put down the barrel and how round your balls are. Speer makes the best round balls as they are swagged instead of cast. Cast leaves a sprue which has to be centered for best acuracy. Thats hard to do. Also bullet weight makes a big difference in groupings. Weigh your bullets and put them into 3-4 groups. shoot only a group at a time. you will notice how much better a pistol shoots.

My old black powder pistols were funny, full loads gave really bad acuracy. But a load 5 grains less (30 grains) was the best for power and acuracy. Shoot your guns and experiment with powder loads. just avoid mousefart loads. anything less than 20 grains is to light.

I had an italian made 36 navy that was a great gun, except if you fired more than 9 rounds in it the acuracy went to hell in a head basket. Swab the barrel and it was fine again for a few more shots. Oh, I should mention that I used to shoot Pyrodex. 2f or 3f. I still do but now I shoot real black powder too.

hope this helps someone.

Dead_Eye
 
Hickock was a killer not hesitant about. Shooting and not caring if. He only cared about hitting good and stopping the attack against him wasstopped.
He was a great shot capible of pinpoint shooting
The average guy couldn't hold 6" under stressful conditions. I am sure they shot for the whole body.
ZVP
 
Most back then were probably lousy shots, but a good part of the reason was black powder. The smoke prevented a good second shot, especially in an enclosed area like a saloon. I've read a number of accounts where a posse had shootouts in wooded mountainous areas and because they had black powder cartridges and those they were chasing had smokeless, the posse got picked off cause the smoke gave away their position, while they couldn't tell where the outlaws were shooting from.
 
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I remember reading of two cowboys who got into a shoot out with each other while standing at the bar of a saloon. They emptied their pistols at each other and all of the shots missed.
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LOL, well then the only thing to do at that point is to buy the man a beer!
 
Just for perspective

5,000 shots per kill in Korea

30,000 shots per kill in Vietnam

250,000 shots per kill Afghanistan/Iraq


On the other hand, snipers and experienced hunters average less than 2 shots per kill
 
To straight shooter.....

They should have bought the beer first and saved the ammunition. (Its easier on the furniture too unless I am the one drinking the beer.)
 
What Ive read indicates most shooting victims in that era lived ten days on average, so I would have to say most were poor shots.
 
Actually penicillin would've been the magic bullet back then. Most people died from infection.
 
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Actually, back then they were worse shots than today. With TV, videos, movies, gun clubs, internet, shooting ranges, shooting instructors, books, etc., todays gun owners are much more informed regarding the shooting sports. In addition, shooting techniques alone have vastly improved, as well as the quality of our weapons and ammunition.

Back then people were either self taught, or were instructed in how to shoot by a parent, or friend. I can't believe their instruction was all that good unless they were qualified by someone like Wes Hardin, or Bill Hickok. I was given a winchester 94 SRC in 38-55 many years ago that belonged to an elderly next door neighbor of my parents. It belonged to his father father and was bought in the 1920's. He had said that because of that rifle and his dad being such a good shot they were able to put meat on the table.

My point is that those who were forced to hunt to live were by the same token forced to learn how to be a good shot. I can't say how well they'd do with a handgun though. Today people are much better shots in general. But that's only my opinion and since the old timers are dead we'll only be able to guess, but we're the bigger wimps.
 
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in the Old west?
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Not everyone was a Cowboy. There were some very good shots back in that day too. Just like now some are good, some think they are good and most aren't. Read more history about actual Lawmen and Outlaws and you'll read of some pretty good shooting. Read some history of Buffalo Bill's show, he had some excellent shots including a little Lady named Annie Oakley. She once shot a cigarette out of the Kaiser's mouth.
 
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