How about those Kel Tek's?
- Thread starter zorba
- Start date
Mine has been reliable and trouble free for the 3 years or so I've had it. Thousands of rounds thru it. You'll hear about problematic ones on this thread I bet, but I think as a rule the P11 is accepted as a very dependable little gun.
Extremely light. Make sure you get the beltclip - mine has never been in a holster. I where it with shorts and a tee-shirt often. Trigger takes some getting use to though. I can get two inch groups at 20 feet no problem (when I dont flinch that is).
I'd steer clear of the 40 cal version if you come across one - they seem to have had a lot of problems.
Extremely light. Make sure you get the beltclip - mine has never been in a holster. I where it with shorts and a tee-shirt often. Trigger takes some getting use to though. I can get two inch groups at 20 feet no problem (when I dont flinch that is).
I'd steer clear of the 40 cal version if you come across one - they seem to have had a lot of problems.
I've got a 9MM P-11 & 2 P-32s. I like them all. All have been very reliable. A few do have some problems though, they are not SIG or Glock quality as they cost half or a third as much. Those that do have some problems can be made reliable by a little tweaking or a trip back to the factory in some cases. Their customer service is prompt and top-notch & they have a lifetime guarantee. A little fluff & buff can accelerate the break-in process and improve reliablity. See http://www.goldenloki.com and http://www.ktog.org for some good info.
The trigger on the P-11 is very long, similar to some revolver triggers. It takes some practice to get used to if you are used to a Glock or other light triggers. It was designed for close range concealed carry & is not a target pistol. Many have found that the trigger shoe available from KT helps http://www.kel-tec.com
The trigger on the P-11 is very long, similar to some revolver triggers. It takes some practice to get used to if you are used to a Glock or other light triggers. It was designed for close range concealed carry & is not a target pistol. Many have found that the trigger shoe available from KT helps http://www.kel-tec.com
waltherpfive
New member
Because of an assembly pin that seems to be an inherent problem that KelTec just can't seem to correct, I don't trust my P-11. I think it is a design flaw and it is a crap shoot whether you get a good gun or not because of poor quality control. After a few trips back to FL you'll have spent enough money to get a more trustworthy pistol.
I've been looking at the P11 a lot also
One caveat up front, I am a newbie but will attempt to distill for another user what I've gleaned from extensive searches of prior posts regarding concealable, "pocket" and sub compact nines. I have not found clear winner for my carry needs within my budget. Despite caliber and stopping power discussions, the only gun I've found that is consistently with every owner is the smaller Kel Tec P-32 (sometimes along with another higher caliber, sometimes without), which enjoys a pretty fair reputation.
Opinions and experiences vary widely based on my searches, particularly the Kel Tec. It is an attractive caliber, price and size. In a loosely comparable price range the Taurus PT-111 is a similar choice with respect to size and purpose (slightly more expensive). Opinions and experiences with the Taurus also run the full range. Most hate the trigger although some don't think it's that bad.
It seems like the baby Glock 26 and the Kahr k9 and mk9 seem to have universal praise, but are of course generally 2x the cost. I haven't found a source of factory refurbished Glock's in the lower price ranges so mid 400s is about the best I've seen (also haven't seen a lot of used Glock's or Kahrs either, that may say something!). The Glock is definitely bulkier, and the Kahr (stainless) is heavier. The jury still seems out on the polymer Kahr's.
I haven't been able to test fire a Kel Tec or Taurus. The Glock and the Kahr are really nice. I am leaning towards holding off and saving for a Glock, although the size isn't exactly what I'm looking for, or just sucking it up and looking at a larger size polymer like a Glock 19 or a Ruger p95 (which is very attractive right now considering the Ruger rebate - could almost afford that and a P32 for the price of a Kahr or Glock).
Choices, choices.... Good luck.
One caveat up front, I am a newbie but will attempt to distill for another user what I've gleaned from extensive searches of prior posts regarding concealable, "pocket" and sub compact nines. I have not found clear winner for my carry needs within my budget. Despite caliber and stopping power discussions, the only gun I've found that is consistently with every owner is the smaller Kel Tec P-32 (sometimes along with another higher caliber, sometimes without), which enjoys a pretty fair reputation.
Opinions and experiences vary widely based on my searches, particularly the Kel Tec. It is an attractive caliber, price and size. In a loosely comparable price range the Taurus PT-111 is a similar choice with respect to size and purpose (slightly more expensive). Opinions and experiences with the Taurus also run the full range. Most hate the trigger although some don't think it's that bad.
It seems like the baby Glock 26 and the Kahr k9 and mk9 seem to have universal praise, but are of course generally 2x the cost. I haven't found a source of factory refurbished Glock's in the lower price ranges so mid 400s is about the best I've seen (also haven't seen a lot of used Glock's or Kahrs either, that may say something!). The Glock is definitely bulkier, and the Kahr (stainless) is heavier. The jury still seems out on the polymer Kahr's.
I haven't been able to test fire a Kel Tec or Taurus. The Glock and the Kahr are really nice. I am leaning towards holding off and saving for a Glock, although the size isn't exactly what I'm looking for, or just sucking it up and looking at a larger size polymer like a Glock 19 or a Ruger p95 (which is very attractive right now considering the Ruger rebate - could almost afford that and a P32 for the price of a Kahr or Glock).
Choices, choices.... Good luck.
RazorsEdge
New member
I have tried a lot of options over the years for CCW, and found that nothing is perfect.
What is important, FOR ME, is weight, and to a lesser degree, width. In CCW, ounces matter.
I can carry a Kel-Tec P-11 with eleven rounds loaded in holster for 23 ounces. Tha'ts boocoo firepower for that weight.
I think that Kahr and Taurus run heavier (Taurus may have ultra light). In my appraisal, extra ounces matter, because for just seven more ounces, I can carry a Glock M19 (19+1) in holster for thirty ounces.
So I have arbitrarily made 23 ounces the cut-off point for me. But each individual has to make their own decision for all day comfort; standing, sitting, ride in car.
Get yourself a postal scale and weigh various gun/ammo/ holster combos for yourself. You may be surprised that SP 101, Mak, and Sig 230 are very heavy for the utility they provide.
I think that Kel-Tec's are reliable, you just have to have a rigorous breakin period, and constantly evaluate, like with any pistol. Remember that Colt .45 1911's need a lot of work, but people seem to accept that.
I am still chapped about the long heavy trigger. I think that it could have easily been eased up a bit, a design flaw. But it's a comfort when carrying, from a safety viewpoint.
What is important, FOR ME, is weight, and to a lesser degree, width. In CCW, ounces matter.
I can carry a Kel-Tec P-11 with eleven rounds loaded in holster for 23 ounces. Tha'ts boocoo firepower for that weight.
I think that Kahr and Taurus run heavier (Taurus may have ultra light). In my appraisal, extra ounces matter, because for just seven more ounces, I can carry a Glock M19 (19+1) in holster for thirty ounces.
So I have arbitrarily made 23 ounces the cut-off point for me. But each individual has to make their own decision for all day comfort; standing, sitting, ride in car.
Get yourself a postal scale and weigh various gun/ammo/ holster combos for yourself. You may be surprised that SP 101, Mak, and Sig 230 are very heavy for the utility they provide.
I think that Kel-Tec's are reliable, you just have to have a rigorous breakin period, and constantly evaluate, like with any pistol. Remember that Colt .45 1911's need a lot of work, but people seem to accept that.
I am still chapped about the long heavy trigger. I think that it could have easily been eased up a bit, a design flaw. But it's a comfort when carrying, from a safety viewpoint.
Walt Sherrill
New member
I carried a Kel-Tec P-11 for about two years. It performed flawlessly and was remarkably accurate.
Some folks can get used to the long, double-action trigger, but I never could.
As I said -- it was(is) accurate, but that was punching paper. When I tried the gun in IDPA competition, I did less well with. (I generally do very well in my class/division when shooting other guns.)
I eventually retired it and then traded it for a small .22 rifle (set up for NRA target shooting. I'm pleased with the trade. I now carry a Star Firestar Plus (about the same size, a litte heavier, but single-action with a much, much better trigger; comparable capacity, just as concealable. The first time I tried the Firestar Plus in an IDPA match, I had the best time. (Small match, no world-class competitors, but still I did much better with it than I did with the Kel-Tec.)
If you can work with the trigger, I think they're hard to beat. But don't fool yourself into thinking that because you "punch paper" well with it, you'll do well in a life/death situation. Try it in a competition environment. While its not nearly as difficult as a real confrontation, you may be surprised... negatively.
(Of course, that said, many of us would probably be surprised if we tried carry weapons in a competition-like situation, where you don't have time to plan, to think, or slowly squeeze that trigger. ... I'll bet a lot of folks carrying a small revolverswould have similar or worse problems.)
The problem with the take-down pin seems to be due to an out-of-spec outsourced part for a part of the past year's production run. Never had that problem with mine, and I put thousands of rounds through it. Kel-Tec seems to have fixed the problem for most owners.
Some folks can get used to the long, double-action trigger, but I never could.
As I said -- it was(is) accurate, but that was punching paper. When I tried the gun in IDPA competition, I did less well with. (I generally do very well in my class/division when shooting other guns.)
I eventually retired it and then traded it for a small .22 rifle (set up for NRA target shooting. I'm pleased with the trade. I now carry a Star Firestar Plus (about the same size, a litte heavier, but single-action with a much, much better trigger; comparable capacity, just as concealable. The first time I tried the Firestar Plus in an IDPA match, I had the best time. (Small match, no world-class competitors, but still I did much better with it than I did with the Kel-Tec.)
If you can work with the trigger, I think they're hard to beat. But don't fool yourself into thinking that because you "punch paper" well with it, you'll do well in a life/death situation. Try it in a competition environment. While its not nearly as difficult as a real confrontation, you may be surprised... negatively.
(Of course, that said, many of us would probably be surprised if we tried carry weapons in a competition-like situation, where you don't have time to plan, to think, or slowly squeeze that trigger. ... I'll bet a lot of folks carrying a small revolverswould have similar or worse problems.)
The problem with the take-down pin seems to be due to an out-of-spec outsourced part for a part of the past year's production run. Never had that problem with mine, and I put thousands of rounds through it. Kel-Tec seems to have fixed the problem for most owners.
There has been some controversy surrounding the P-11.
I bought mine used, and tried it before I bought it (from a Range/store). I practice with it a lot to get used to the trigger. It has been completely reliable, and more accurate than I expected. I think its a great carry pistol.
I bought mine used, and tried it before I bought it (from a Range/store). I practice with it a lot to get used to the trigger. It has been completely reliable, and more accurate than I expected. I think its a great carry pistol.
bitgtex2001
Inactive
I have had my P-11 for a few months now and the only problems I have had with it are a few jams with certain types of ammo.. I've had good luck with PMC FMJ, and so far have had good luck with Remington HPs, It is a wonderful CCW and I wear it with shorts in a IWB holster.. Talk about light, and I feel it is reliable to carry..
alaska1993
New member
For carry, my P-32 is the best I've ever owned. No, it is not the best shooter in the world but I can't put my G23 or 1911 in my shorts pocket either. I carry it when I would not be able to carry anything else. Also, at $193 NIB, it was a pretty good deal.
My P-32 is a sweet little always or glovebox gun.
But this is really sweet until you can afford a $2,000 HK 89, the civilian version of the HK MP5 in 9mm.
At $400 used for the older ones or $375 NIB its great for nice 2" groups at 50 yards and 3" groups at 100 yards.
Love my . . .
But this is really sweet until you can afford a $2,000 HK 89, the civilian version of the HK MP5 in 9mm.
At $400 used for the older ones or $375 NIB its great for nice 2" groups at 50 yards and 3" groups at 100 yards.
Love my . . .
Zoom Wilson
Inactive
waltherpfive, my dealer, after dealing with many upset customers, figured-out why the assembly pins just won't stay in Kel Tec's P32 pistols. It's because the slide-stop spring is either too weak or because it splits (metal cracks in half). In my P32, and in four P11's I've seen at the range, the pistol would jam almost every other round. I think, I haven't looked at it personally, but it's what the dealer said, the P11 has the same problem. Kel Tec claimed that wasn't bad enough to warrant warranty work. Whatever. The slide stop spring is a flat piece of metal in the shape of a (for lack of a better description) keyhole. It keeps the slide stop down until the magazine is empty. The other side of it presses up against a notch in the assembly pin. If it is weak, the slide stop will bounce up from the force of recoil and keep the slide from returning. Also, the other side of this spring won't stay in the notch on the assembly pin to keep it from coming-out. On my P32, the barrel looks like it is ruined from pounding unevenly against a half inserted assembly pin. The cam under the barrel is mushroomed on the left side. Also, the hole on the left side of the frame is now oval shaped. Good luck finding parts. Kel Tec doesn't have any parts distributors, and I haven't found a replacement part that will work. Anyone know of a part for another gun that will work?
OkieCruffler
New member
"Good luck finding parts. Kel Tec doesn't have any parts distributors, and I haven't found a replacement part that will work
. Anyone know of a part for another gun that will work?"
Why are you looking for a distributor? I've ordered several parts directly from Kel-tec and always recieved them within a week. My P-11 is quickly approaching 10,000 rds and gets better every time I take it out. Maybe I'm just getting more used to the trigger. This weekend I was nailing a pie tin at 50 yrds with it using cheap south african ammo.
. Anyone know of a part for another gun that will work?"
Why are you looking for a distributor? I've ordered several parts directly from Kel-tec and always recieved them within a week. My P-11 is quickly approaching 10,000 rds and gets better every time I take it out. Maybe I'm just getting more used to the trigger. This weekend I was nailing a pie tin at 50 yrds with it using cheap south african ammo.
I have carried the P-11 for a long time and gave always praised its reliability and ease of concealment. My main problem with it ( which is why I eventually traded it in on a Glock 26), id that with the trigger it is hard to shoot well at multiple targets with rapid fire and get good hits. As was posted here before, its nice for standing still and shooting at round targets, but hard as hell for combat shooting especially when engaging multiple targets..
It is a great little carry gun for the money and mine was 100% reliable with any ammo, I just feel that it would be wiser to save up and get a Glock 26 or some such pistol IMHO.
It is a great little carry gun for the money and mine was 100% reliable with any ammo, I just feel that it would be wiser to save up and get a Glock 26 or some such pistol IMHO.
My P-32 has been great. So far it shoots anything without any problem. It also seems to be holding up well and I've not had any problems with the takedown pin popping out as mentioned in some posts. It is the gun I have with me all the time and I highly recommend it if your looking for a true pocket pistol. I also own a P-11. Overall I like it and think it's a decent gun. My opinion may improve after I shoot it more. I did have some FTE. These did not happen a lot but they happened with some regularity. I recently sent my P-11 to the factory because of this. I received it back in two weeks. They did not find anything wrong with the extractor, but they did replace the firing pin assembly for some reason (don't know why). I've put 50 rounds through the gun since its return and the gun functioned flawlessly. It seems that they may have polished the feedramp and chamber opening and this may have something to do with it. If it continues to function reliably it will be a keeper also.
Zoom...
...please contact Kel-Tec's P-32 gunsmith and make arrangements to send her your pistol for repair.
I think you will be pleasantly surprised [Kel-Tec is renowned for its customer service], although it sounds like someone who didn't know much about semi-autos has been abusing your particular pistol...it shouldn't have been fired if the assembly pin was backing out.
The serial-numbered frame is indeed anodized aluminum alloy, but that kind of damage isn't done by firing one mag through it.
...please contact Kel-Tec's P-32 gunsmith and make arrangements to send her your pistol for repair.
I think you will be pleasantly surprised [Kel-Tec is renowned for its customer service], although it sounds like someone who didn't know much about semi-autos has been abusing your particular pistol...it shouldn't have been fired if the assembly pin was backing out.
The serial-numbered frame is indeed anodized aluminum alloy, but that kind of damage isn't done by firing one mag through it.