Homemade firearms laws in michigan?

J

Juggernaut12121

Inactive
First let me say I'm new here and I deeply apologize for putting this in the wrong place.
I want to make a handgun that fires 410 shells, but I don't know about the law surrounding it.
I've researched for a few hours but can't quite find a definitive answer.
I know a shotgun has to have 18" or longer barrel and 26" total length and a rifle 16" barrel and 26" overall, and I know you can make a pistol any length as long as it doesn't have a stock (please please please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this).
But I don't know if I can make a pistol that shoots shells rather than cartridges.

A big thanks for any insight (I live in Michigan if you forgot or didn't read the title)
 
Why go through all that work when there are already two on the market that are revolvers plus numerous derringers that alrady do what you want?

Also in .45 you can purchase or reload Speer shot capsuls.
 
I don't pretend to know about Michigan law but under federal law you can make a handgun that fires shotgun shells ... but it has to have a rifled barrel or it becomes an "any other weapon"
 
The reason for making it rather than buying it would be to take more pride and fun in it. But that's just me.
Also, the design thus far would include a barrel that's several inches longer than what's on the market and should fit the projectile tighter than a pistol that shoots 45LC as well as 410.

But mostly, it's just the fun and cost effectiveness of building it myself

As far as the rifling goes I'll have to look into it more, as I'm not sure if it will make it absolutely legal in Michigan and how I would do it with the supplies at hand. Thanks!
 
I would post this same question in Michigan gun owners (MGO) forum in the legal section. Should get informed response there.
 
I didn't even know there was such a thing, is there someway just to move the post there like they did the first time or should I just make a new post?
 
I'm a bit late to this party, but here goes. :)
Aguila Blanca said:
I don't pretend to know about Michigan law but under federal law you can make a handgun that fires shotgun shells ... but it has to have a rifled barrel or it becomes an "any other weapon"
Juggernaut12121 said:
As far as the rifling goes I'll have to look into it more...
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Let me help. :) A one-handed firearm without rifling or a shoulder stock is defined as an "Any Other Weapon" or AOW under the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA).

Per 26 U.S. Code Sec. 5845(e):
(e) Any other weapon
The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.
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(My emphasis underlined)

The term "pistol or revolver" is NOT defined explicitly in the NFA, but it has been interpreted to mean a firearm designed to be fired with one hand. (As an aside, this is how pistol-grip or PGO shotguns get around this provision, as they are invariably pump-action designs that require two hands to operate.)

I am also totally unfamiliar with MI law regarding manufacturing your own firearm, but you should be aware that many states have a law that says something like "The possession, manufacture, or transfer of an [insert description of NFA weapon] is unlawful unless the possession, manufacture, or transfer is pursuant to registration under the National Firearms Act of 1934..." In short, possession of an unregistered NFA weapon is ALSO a violation of state law, in addition to being a violation of federal law. To see if MI has such a law, I suggest searching the state's online statutes using the term "National Firearms Act".

The topic of NFA registration and transfer taxes for an AOW is far too broad to address here, but you can find oodles of resources online. :cool:
 
Hello, looks like a late post but, in case someone stumbles here looking for info on the state law. Michigan is an odd state in that if you manufacture a pistol (for personal use only of course) You need to obtain an RI-060 (one of these https://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/ri-060_523727_7.pdf) fill it out, put your name as the buyer and the seller, and deliver it to The Chief law enforcement officer of your locality, be that a municipal police if you're in town, or county police if you aren't. Registration is such a bummer
 
TheFriendlyMarksman said:
Pistols capable of firing shotgun shells are legal (Taurus Judge, etc.), but I don't know if your homemade gun would be classified as "any other weapon" under the NFA. Best check with the ATF first.
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As has already been noted in this discussion, pistols (handguns) that fire shotgun shells are legal IF they have rifled barrels. If such a firearm does not have a rifled barrel, it becomes an "Any other weapon" under federal law. The Taurus Judge has a rifled barrel, thus it falls within the law as a handgun.
 
Is it just that the barrel is rifled, or is it that the pistol can fire a normal pistol cartridge? I would just expect to seem these made in a few other gauges if it just needed to be rifled.
There is a separate .50 cal limit isn't there? That would eliminate the other gauges I guess.
Surprised no one has introduced a .500 shell to match a 50 cal pistol.
 
johnwilliamson062 said:
Is it just that the barrel is rifled, or is it that the pistol can fire a normal pistol cartridge?
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It's the rifled bore; the cartridge it fires has nothing to do with it.

From the 26 USC excerpt I posted above:
The term “any other weapon”... shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore...
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johnwilliamson062 said:
There is a separate .50 cal limit isn't there?
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Yes, in the definition of "Destructive Device" from 26 USC § 5845(f), my emphasis underlined:
(f) Destructive device
The term “destructive device” means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device; (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes...
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[EDIT: Misleading information regarding shotgun exception deleted.]
 
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you can also use rifles and pistols in calibers larger than 50 caliber if they utilize a match, flint or cap lock ignition. These are not considered "firearms" in the 1968 GCA. What I don't remember is if they have to use black powder or a substitute or if they can use smokeless powder like the current smokeless muzzle loading rifles.
 
ShootistPRS said:
you can also use rifles and pistols in calibers larger than 50 caliber if they utilize a match, flint or cap lock ignition. These are not considered "firearms" in the 1968 GCA.
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Actually, the NFA has its own definition of antique, found in 26 USC § 5845(g).
(g) Antique firearm
The term ‘‘antique firearm’’ means any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
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This definition is subtly different from the 68 GCA definition in that it does NOT broadly exempt all pre-1899 fixed-cartridge firearms. IOW if you were to cut down the barrel of a Winchester lever rifle made in 1895 to 12", it would still count as an SBR.

However, for the purposes of this discussion, you are correct—a firearm with match, flint, and cap lock ignition is NOT a DD, as the definition of DD concludes with this...
...The term “destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.
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ShootistPRS said:
What I don't remember is if they have to use black powder or a substitute or if they can use smokeless powder like the current smokeless muzzle loading rifles.
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I presume that such a gun could use smokeless powder, as the definition of antique says nothing about smokeless or black powder; however, IANAL disclaimers apply. ;)
 
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