Home based FFL

O

Otto1791

Inactive
I am more than likely getting my FFL this spring or sooner and it will be based out of my home which is unfortunately here in Rochester, NY. I have contacted the zoning department in my town and it has been OK'd from them and talked to the ATF as well to sort out any kind of bumps in the road that they may forsee being a problem. I am 100 percent in understanding that an FFL is for business use and all. I am pretty much working on virtually zero capital for inventory and looking to start off just doing transfers, which the CHEAPEST I have seen around here is $25 and that is about 40 minutes from here. Due to zoning I am NOT allowed to do ANY business in my home and have to go to the customers homes. I am looking to charge $35 for transfers because of gas and milage. Do you guys think this is fair, over priced or low balling myself? Looking for feed back for that and any other ideas you may feel is possible to profit from so i can build up capital for an actual inventory. Not looking to make a fortune, I am very aware of the reality of it. Just looking to make a little extra cash doing something I love and want to provide fellow law abiding citizens with affordable, quality firearms. Lots of shops around here b.s. people. Had one shop tell me if I built an AR from parts I order the ATF would put me in prison. Thanks
 
Otto1791 said:
I am pretty much working on virtually zero capital for inventory and looking to start off just doing transfers, which the CHEAPEST I have seen around here is $25 and that is about 40 minutes from here. Due to zoning I am NOT allowed to do ANY business in my home and have to go to the customers homes.
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How are you getting BATFE approval for a business if you are not allowed to conduct business at your business location (your home)? The BATFE requires that you have a place of business, and regular business hours. The regular hours could be for one hour a week, on Sunday afternoons, but they have to be regular so the BATFE can come when you're open for business and conduct an inspection.

What am I missing here?
 
Otto1791 said:
...Due to zoning I am NOT allowed to do ANY business in my home and have to go to the customers homes....
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Won't work. Under federal law an FFL may conduct business only at his licensed premise or at a gun show. See 18 USC 923(j):
(j) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer may, under rules or regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, conduct business temporarily at a location other than the location specified on the license if such temporary location is the location for a gun show or event sponsored by any national, State, or local organization, or any affiliate of any such organization devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms in the community,...
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So it would not be legal under federal law to travel to do transfers at customer's homes.
 
You can't go to a customer's home. You have to do business at YOUR PLACE OF BUSINESS.
Apparently, you haven't actually talked to BATF, either. Unless local zoning regulations allow you to work from your home, BATF will not issue a license.
 
ATF has OK'd the way the business will be conducted. I called the Buffalo office directly, they were only concerned with how the firearms would be locked,that the FFL was not primarily used for personal use and that I am not violating zoning code. Many businesses go to customers homes, I plan on only going to referred customers for safety reasons. I guarantee you ATF is OK with how I plan on doing business.
 
I will call them Monday and clear that all up, have them email me the response to have it in black and white. Amazing the hoops and technicalities the government puts in place, where's the freedom? Thanks for the feedback fellas!
 
Rest assured the ATF WILL CONTACT THE ZONING OFFICE. As soon as the zoning office states no foot traffic(no business conducted) at your residence to the ATF your application will be DENIED. Your zoning office has stated that NO BUSINESS AT HOME. That's your stop light. Perusing your endeavor is going to be fruitless.
 
ATF has OK'd the way the business will be conducted. I called the Buffalo office directly, they were only concerned with how the firearms would be locked,that the FFL was not primarily used for personal use and that I am not violating zoning code. Many businesses go to customers homes, I plan on only going to referred customers for safety reasons. I guarantee you ATF is OK with how I plan on doing business.
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But you ARE violating the zoning laws since you cannot "do any business" at your home, and receiving and logging in guns is part of "doing business"
 
Otto,
please keep us informed on how this turns out, there are many of us that are in the same boat and would like to consider what you're doing as an option.
 
Personal interpretation of laws to your favor doesn't change the reality of the situation.
(That sounded quite astute, didn't it)? :)
 
Zoning laws are different , depending on where you live. The busniess , if under a set square feet area, may be allowed. The type of busniess also matters. You will also need to update you home owner insurance, if peope come to your home. A tiny operation may purchase insurance like a lady that does hair in the basement. The ATF has listed that no FFL are allowed to work from you home. But an outbuilding that is not attached to the house, is ok. Problem is, the ATF laws are always changing. Dont give up. Good luck.
 
GW noted:
Personal interpretation of laws to your favor doesn't change the reality of the situation.
(That sounded quite astute, didn't it)?
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Along the lines of: "The world is as it is, not as you wish it to be."
 
I made it really clear to the zoning office and the ATF that my home will only be used as storage for the firearms and as an address for the license, no foot traffic or advertisement on the property. All interactons would be done off property of proposed licensed address. If you guys have any advice on how I should word it to the ATF when I call on Monday to reiterate, I'd appreciate it. I will keep you informed on any or all results.
 
If I can get a transfer for $25 less than an hour away, I'm going to combine my errands and save the ten bucks extra you're going to charge me.

As an aside, just because you have an FFL doesn't mean I'm going to let a stranger in my home. You may be the nicest guy in the entire Mohawk River Valley but I'll drive for an hour and eliminate any and all risk to my family that may or may not arise from someone at my door.

Since I can't come to your place and shoot the breeze with you for a couple of hours while checking out your sales rack, I'm not going to have any basis to consider you as someone to put any trust in, other than I've been referred to you, which means nothing.

Can't do business at your business? Red flag.
You want to come to my house? Red flag.

Nothing personal, but I'm not seeing much of a business model here.

If you can change that model to 'transfers here in the shop are $25, and we can come to your place for $35', that would be beneficial.
 
Otto1791 said:
I made it really clear...
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Did you do it in writing, by "snail mail"? Did you get your answers in writing, by "snail mail"? That's how we conduct and document important business in the real world.
 
I would work off of referrals, a "I have a good buddy that knows his stuff on guns" kind of thing. I uderstand people may not trust me and if that is the case I would be more than glad to tell them to go to the shop I go to. I'm not trying to have this be my day job out of my house like this. I have only spoken to the ATF and email zoning office so I can print them out as proof to the ATF as requested by the ATF. there is an interview conducted for the license on the premises by the ATF after filing, they said any or all issues would definitely ironed out by then.
 
Getting an FFL is not a negotiated process, either you are in compliance with each and every box to be checked off on the form, or you are not. There is no 'ironing out' of deficiencies.

I recommend you seek a variance in your zoning requirement. Be prepared to spend some serious time and effort getting your FFL.

I know two home-based FFLers, both required a variance be granted in order to conduct business at their home in residential zoning. Fortunately, none of the neighbors objected, but the town did not allow ammunition sales along with the guns for safety reasons.
 
Otto1791 said:
I have only spoken to the ATF and email zoning office so I can print them out as proof to the ATF as requested by the ATF. there is an interview conducted for the license on the premises by the ATF after filing, they said any or all issues would definitely ironed out by then.
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But the zoning office told you you can't conduct business at your home, and the BATFE requires that you have a regular business address and regular business hours in order to have an FFL. What good is it going to do you to print out and show the BATFE agent an e-mail from the zoning officer telling you that you can't operate the business from your home?

It sounds to me like you are either getting bad advice from somewhere, or not asking the right questions.
 
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